Official Ladder support thread ;)

General Discussion
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First, Thank you very very much for the response. OMG...

- How would you ideally like that system to work?


Basically the same as D2. Of course, it'd be really nice to see most of the same statistics that diabloprogress records, such as Unbuffed DPS and EHP.

- How long would you like the resets to be?


I'd say 9-12 months perhaps.

- How many characters do you think players should be able to create for ladders? (Do you think they should take up the existing slots you have?)


I'd say 5 for each ladder and either 5-10 for NL. I wouldn't be opposed to 10 on each.

- Should there be an auction house for ladder characters?


AH and RMAH please. People already go to, have been and still are, item selling sites that aren't here. Why not take a chunk of the pot while also sharing the wealth with people other than the chinese farmers?

- Should there be any special items or perks for ladder-only characters? If so, what kind


Personally, I don't care if they are there. To be perfectly honest, I'd prefer if they weren't. I don't want people to feel like Ladder is better than NL simply for the new items. It would make NL pointless for most everyone that actually cares.

- What kind of restrictions, if any, should be placed on ladder characters?


Can't play with NL players. Dunno what else.

- Do think players should be able to bring their ladder characters into "non-ladder" once a reset is complete?


Yes. They will have to choose which characters they want to keep. It would create a backup type of system to hold these characters in until the player decides to remove enough players to add in the new NL players. Essentially, if they have no blank spots, they have to make room. If they leave them for say 2 days, all the new NL players get deleted and their items. The stash would be accessible for those 2 days as well, in case they wanted the items from it.

- Is it necessary for ladders to be competitive, or is it enough for players to just see for themselves how far they can go on their own?


I don't find it necessary, but it'd definitely make things more interesting. You should consider doing what PoE is doing.

- Why would ladders improve your in-game experience?


Basically what Wyatt said. I do enjoy at times to race to the top of the ladder. Also, I believe and I am sure others do, saying that a ladder wouldn't be viable unless it were for the expansion, to give everyone a reason to buy the expansion. The way the game is now, people want incentive to play, if you gave us that now, we would be less likely to get the expansion. It's smart, but really greedy.
- How would you ideally like that system to work?
There is a 3-4 month optional ladder that when you create a character you have to option to create said character in the ladder league and that league is obviously exclusive to itself. When league ends characters get dumped into a similar permanent league. I would hope the ladder wouldn't have RMAH.

- How long would you like the resets to be?
For non-racing ladders 3-4 months.

- How many characters do you think players should be able to create for ladders? (Do you think they should take up the existing slots you have?)
2-5. Yes, but expand the number of characters offered.

- Should there be an auction house for ladder characters?
Never an RMAH but otherwise it could be ladder specific. For example you could have non-AH or you could have a soft AH where items can be traded but once equipped become character bound.

- Should there be any special items or perks for ladder-only characters? If so, what kind?
Yes and no. There doesn't have to be but it could be something to have fun for you guys to play with.

- What kind of restrictions, if any, should be placed on ladder characters?
Again it could be specific to a league but nothing comes to my mind, could also be something for you guys to get creative with.

- Do think players should be able to bring their ladder characters into "non-ladder" once a reset is complete?
Yes but I wouldn't care if I couldn't.

- Is it necessary for ladders to be competitive, or is it enough for players to just see for themselves how far they can go on their own?
It could be competitive or for its own sake, I don't really mind either way.

- Why would ladders improve your in-game experience?
I didn't start having fun again until I embraced HC league. A ladder would further that by allowing for a community of new/er players experiencing a fresh economy and possibly some ladder specific conditions/perks that would have a limited duration to prevent economic collapse and the negative impacts that has on the player experience. Furthermore I feel it would add replay value that is true to the nature of an APRG. For example in an MMO like WoW you would just add new content and add power to current characters. IMHO an arpg is meant to be replayed and you're meant to re-roll new character classes and new builds rather than play one single character for years on end (obviously this is possible). The reason why I say that is because there will always be a time in a character's life when the rewards from the item hunt come too far between and this is the perfect opportunity to roll a new class or build and I feel a ladder would be a perfect way to add replay value in this manner and at the same time doing so with a community.

PS: Not going to proofread all that I've wrote so sorry for any misspell or grammar errors.
06/12/2013 05:25 PMPosted by GeorgAnatoly
PS: Not going to proofread all that I've wrote so sorry for any misspell or grammar errors.


No. I hate you forever.

(jk, jk)
06/12/2013 05:26 PMPosted by Lylirra
PS: Not going to proofread all that I've wrote so sorry for any misspell or grammar errors.


No. I hate you forever.

(jk, jk)


Want I give you the bat?
Lylirra, you better be careful with how you implement ladder. Some of us spent 1000+ hours in this game. Having a ladder may mean that we've wasted our time perfecting a character that will become irrelevant.
06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
I'm not a huge fan of threads that simply are looking for "+1" comments (since that doesn't really let us know why something is meaningful to you, just that you want it), so let's turn this around.


I understand that a "+1" doesn't tell you guys WHY we like ladder or what we like about ladder, but it actually should be Enough.

Different people like the D2 ladder for different reasons!

Personally I like the "ladder only" items and also the fact that Many more things in ladder are traded and traded more often in ladder. That makes the "trading endgame" in ladder more viable and fun than in non-ladder.

We WANT ladder in D3 for the SAME and various reasons that we like it in D2!
That alone should be enough for you to include it in D3! SEQUEL!
We WANT ladder in D3 for the SAME and various reasons that we like it in D2!
That alone should be enough for you to include it in D3! SEQUEL!


Not everyone feels the same way (meaning, not everyone would like a ladder for the same reason). You may agree on concept, but disagree on execution for example. That's why more detailed posts are usually more useful in these situations. :)
murtdog's analysis gave me second thoughts about what I would and wouldn't like in a ladder- so I'm not sure about a lot of the details he mentions. But I do like the idea of no AH available (as long as loot drops are increased to make self found more viable). I really would like to feel like I can go out and get something that I'm looking for and if ladder does it then that'd be ideal. And on the same note, I wouldn't want ladder characters to revert to nonladder because then Id have to return to AH after ladder reset...
(BTW I never played ladder in D2, I only played nonladder. I also never played POE. So not sure if its fair of me to give that opinion, but its just how I feel about it, not based on any prior experience)
06/12/2013 05:52 PMPosted by Lylirra
Not everyone feels the same way (meaning, not everyone would like a ladder for the same reason). You may agree on concept, but disagree on execution for example. That's why more detailed posts are usually more useful in these situations. :)


True. I thought It was clear that I was talking about Fans of the ladder in Diablo 2.
Those fans play ladder for Various and different reasons but they all play ladder.

If when you say "not everyone" you are talking about players who are NOT fans of a D2 style ladder, then I don't have an answer for you.
Absolutely there needs to be incentives to play in the Ladder. Increased DE drop rates maybe, or much better lower level craftables. Definitely at least 25% more legendaries.

For all those idiots who say that is "unbalanced", well you're already an idiot. Think about wtf unbalanced would mean and this is an ARPG, AND there should be incentive to play Ladder ie. start from the bottom.
Absolutely there needs to be incentives to play in the Ladder. Increased DE drop rates maybe, or much better lower level craftables. Definitely at least 25% more legendaries.

For all those idiots who say that is "unbalanced", well you're already an idiot. Think about wtf unbalanced would mean and this is an ARPG, AND there should be incentive to play Ladder ie. start from the bottom.


Yea I totally agree with you but the opposition from the top 5% of players who don't possibly want to play ladder will be craaaze
06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How would you ideally like that system to work?

The same as Diablo 2! That has been a great success. Although some NEW features could possibly be added. For example being in the top 100-500 you receive a 200% MF boost for Non- Ladder. This gives incentive to let the previous winners go and farm Non-Ladder and new players come in to compete! You may think that is not fair for players who don't try ladder, although maybe it is. These players took 6 months of their time to set a goal for the prize and make their Non-ladder experience more interesting/rewarding.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How long would you like the resets to be?

6 Month periods, OR you could implement a similar system to Path of Exile which has proven to be quite successful. Different Ladder types, 1 week, 4 week or 12 week ladder periods. All including some sort of scaled reward similar to above.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How many characters do you think players should be able to create for ladders? (Do you think they should take up the existing slots you have?)

Personally I would have thought unlimited. Although previous Blizzard statements have been that it uses a lot of data. So possibly another 5-10 slots added to the current 10? People generally like seeing the accomplishment that that character completed that ladder. It would be great if on the character profile for those ladder characters, it would say something like: 248th in the 8/6/2013 2 Week Race. People would eventually delete them and keep trying to beat their place! Or maybe have a hall of Ladder heroes ;)

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Should there be an auction house for ladder characters?

Well this is really the most cautious thing about this. Flipping items on the AH to get an advantage over other players I think is not fair. Once the itemization patch hits, more incentive for self-found will be acknowledged. Tweaking the drop rate for a Self-Found Ladder would work.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Should there be any special items or perks for ladder-only characters? If so, what kind?

Personally I do and don't think this is a good idea. On one hand it promotes more incentive to play it. On the other, it is probably punishing players who won't play this game mode.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- What kind of restrictions, if any, should be placed on ladder characters?

Not really sure about this one. Maybe something that doesn't involve exploiting. To be honest Barbarians will definitely always come out on top on ladders due to the speed of WW. What if you adjusted each class to receive an equal rate of XP p/h. You could internally test in 1 hour periods using the same route of each class how much XP they get, then adjust accordingly.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Do think players should be able to bring their ladder characters into "non-ladder" once a reset is complete?

Yes, 100%. A lot of people have been bringing up that they wouldn't like this system because they would have to start all over again after that hard work of leveling. Bringing them over makes everyone happy :)

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Is it necessary for ladders to be competitive, or is it enough for players to just see for themselves how far they can go on their own?

Competitive gameplay is what makes games last. It extended the life of Diablo 2 a great margin. Take a look at any competitive games, Counter-strike, Starcraft are still being played today.
Adding leaderboard like in Diablo 2 would further this experience. You could possibly show the total time it took to reach paragon 50 or 100, how much XP p/h they are/were making and players can click on their name and view their characters gear and skills.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Why would ladders improve your in-game experience?

It would make a fresh experience. Many people feel that they are very far behind currently with people with billions of gear worth. Starting from scratch gives everyone an idea that they have a chance to win, they have a chance to get in top 500, or maybe the next Ladder season they have a chance to improve and get into top 200 etc.
- How long would you like the resets to be?
Every 6-8 months. Long enough for many people to reach the top and become incredibly powerful.

- How many characters do you think players should be able to create for ladders? (Do you think they should take up the existing slots you have?)
At the minimum at least one per class.

- Should there be an auction house for ladder characters?
No.

- Should there be any special items or perks for ladder-only characters? If so, what kind?
Although not necessary, achievements or gear like in d2 to give an incentive for players to play on ladder. Ladder only gear should become boa when characters are sent to non-ladder.

- What kind of restrictions, if any, should be placed on ladder characters?
No auction house I think is a big enough restriction.

- Do think players should be able to bring their ladder characters into "non-ladder" once a reset is complete?
Yes

- Is it necessary for ladders to be competitive, or is it enough for players to just see for themselves how far they can go on their own?
Both aspects as you mentioned are important as people have different goals.

- Why would ladders improve your in-game experience?
I don't play because my friends don't play. In D2, whenever a new ladder would start we would start playing again from our hiatus as the idea of starting off fresh and regaining our wealth was always exciting.
06/12/2013 06:12 PMPosted by Stavros
Ladder only gear should become boa when characters are sent to non-ladder.


This is a very interesting idea.
06/12/2013 06:22 PMPosted by Lemmywinks
I honestly didn't bother reading what u had to say blue. Anyways go deal with the whole PS3 nonsense. Why even have that at E3? Hey guys we want to show you this game that's a year old but now we have it on Playstation!" Yawn.


Hey there actually taking the time to respond to a popular request this time why pick now to flame
06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
How would you ideally like that system to work?

See D2 LoD.. yeah.. like that.. exactly...

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How long would you like the resets to be?

6 months - Honestly I don't know.. maybe more... 1 year...or years??

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How many characters do you think players should be able to create for ladders? (Do you think they should take up the existing slots you have?)

New slots for ladder characters...Minimum of 1 per class.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Should there be an auction house for ladder characters?

No... As much as I really like the AH and what it adds to the game.. no.. But it is important what happens when the ladder resets..

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Should there be any special items or perks for ladder-only characters? If so, what kind?

I'm not really a fan of this. So no. The perk is the competition in the ladder.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- What kind of restrictions, if any, should be placed on ladder characters?

Restrictions? no... it should be the exact same game as non ladder.. The point is the race and self found characters. I guess no ability to buy gold is a restriction so ya that...

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Do think players should be able to bring their ladder characters into "non-ladder" once a reset is complete?

Yes. 100%...110%... I'm not playing for nothing,... I mean I am not playing just for momentary glory, that is fine but it still needs more beyond that and items that convert with your character fits the bill perfectly. If I was going to play with no ability to convert I might as well play hardcore and of course we already have that.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Is it necessary for ladders to be competitive, or is it enough for players to just see for themselves how far they can go on their own?

Yes competitive... could be EXP, Kills, deaths... massacre numbers...

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Why would ladders improve your in-game experience?

If done correctly they could give me a chance to play without the AH or the temptation of using it. While I love the AH I am interested in playing without it even being an option. Also it would provide some competition as stated above.

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