A self-found proposal - SFcore

General Discussion
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Post is maximum size and thus can't accept further posts; the best info is in the first 17 pages.

This post is here to aid the devs in realizing a Self-found mode of play. This proposal is NOT intended as a fix for itemization but is a separate style of play.

Original post from Lylirra (Blue) asking for input: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9281269069#20
My original response moved to here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9281269069?page=7#140

I wished to move my response to a new thread so that self-found players can look it over, add to it, improve it, and discuss the merits it proposes. The first 17 pages provide the best input.

The programming required to institute a separate "Self-found" mode shouldn't be too difficult. We are asking for restrictions that could be disabled by terminating JumpSubroutines, or already exist in game, i.e. Turning on or off the RMAH. My version of our collective idea for a Self-found mode of play follows but please note there are good variants and ideas within this thread as well:

- Self-found players can only play with other self-found players and there should be a limit on the level difference of the players to prevent power-leveling abuse, i.e. 5 levels maximum. Some games even divide the experience gained by giving more to the higher levels and less to the lower levels (Suggest a ten level difference between Paragon levels). Also restrict access to high level MP games if your DPS is quite higher or lower than the other people playing. The game would have to monitor someone switching to extremely good gear once they come into game so that if the person's DPS suddenly falls outside of the tolerance, he would get a message that "Equipping that item will cause you to leave this public game". If he proceeds than he would be kicked with a message to all players why;
- (Potentially) To help to prevent people from being carried through the game (via very lucky, well equipped players or bots), if you are not on the mini-map with the other player(s) then money & loot doesn't drop, and experience isn't gained;
- No trading, no auction houses, no dropping of items or gold; in effect, all items are character-bound (or possibly account-bound;
- (Potentially) The first stash would be only used to put items into it and those items would be common to non-SF characters. It would be one-way only (can put in but SF players can't take out) and would have to be coloured differently and/or a warning pop-up that items put in can't be taken out. Items put into the first stash would be account bound. The other two stashes would be for normal use by that SF character;
- (Optionally) Selling items to vendor should give more coins, or more mats if broken down because all you can do is sell them or break them down. Vendors should remain the same in that you can buy and sell items;
- (Optionally) Item drop rates in general should be improved, especially for plans that are used by the Blacksmith and Jeweler. The consoles will have a better drop rate due to no auction house and Self-found should be the same;
- Each self-found character is a separate instance, thus a separate stash, separate blacksmith and jeweler; their levels are reset to zero and gold is reset to zero, also a separate experience bar to track the difficulty level and progression (like Softcore and Hardcore have);
- Self-found mode should also be able to be used with hardcore mode; either/both selected via checkboxes (and again as a separate hardcore instance);
- Monster Power, Infernal Machine, etc. all to remain the same; and
- Denote self-found characters in a special way. Why not use a Blue character name font for SF Softcore and a purple font (blue + hardcore red = purple) for SF Hardcore.

Impact to auction houses? None. Self-found players don't use the RMAH anyway, and Blizzard doesn't make a profit on the Gold AH. But because SF would in no way generate RMAH money (just like Hardcore doesn't) then place a limit on how many SF & Hardcore characters you can have (to satisfy the Blizzard economists), but only if this is a real worry for Blizzard. Blizzard could even implement a micro transaction shop that sells cosmetic items, or extra character slots, or an extra stash tab, etc. (good for all modes of play). Advertising could also be employed by Blizzard on the Self-found area only, if extra revenue is required. We could put up with an ad or two in order to be able to play this way.

Rubberbanding? Create a new server for Self-found and move the Hardcore also to this server. Because there are fewer players that play both styles, everyone benefits from less lag and rubberbanding. Also, this implementation will make it easy to select SF softcore and SF hardcore play. Win, win.

Brawling would be fair and 'Selfies' would probably do some. Possibly later we could see a Self-found forum and SF achievements and even SF Ladders.

Ref response from 'TheTias' who is quoting 'Drothvader', in a different thread: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9308900845#8

Personally I like what Wyatt said.

There's no need to have a "Self Found" mode / league / ladder or any of that nonsense.

All you need to do is give the character a title of some sort when they have all 13 slots equipped with items that they themselves found or crafted. When one piece of gear is equipped that wasn't found / crafted by that player, the Self Found title is lost until they reequip all 13 slots with their own items.


That's an interesting idea. I hadn't even considered that (actually I hadn't even come up with it). That would give the self found crowd something without changing any aspect of the game for anybody else.
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My thoughts on this is that someone could simply trade and buy their way to a high level then equip themselves with self-found (SF) gear. He could then claim that he was SF from level one. Although this doesn't sound so bad, I have to use the "it's the principle of the thing" statement. It IS good to see greens and blues seriously looking at the potential of SF.

A final thought:

Why is Self-found important? Blizzard came up with the Diablo series and it was a complete success in reviews, sales, playability, etc. Blizzard has always tried to improve their games, which accounts for still being able to play Diablo online (17 years later) and Diablo 2 and LOD online 12 years later. The improvements to the latter have been outstanding.

The original intent was that players could play the game, have fun and not have to use cheats, exploits, hacks, dupes, etc. Diablo 3 tried to alleviate most of these by having the item database online (brilliant!). We know you also believe in a purer game, and unfortunately the AH and RMAH have been grossly abused by many players.

Please give us access to an additional style of play that has no trade, no picking up items someone has dropped, no access to auction houses; we would like a pure way to play together in the original spirit of play that Diablo 1 and 2 gave to communities, i.e. finding items in order to progress through the game.

The only people who don't want this mode are botters, flippers, account strippers, and third-party sites.

Also see Cyberbard's "Self-found Q&A" thread: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9627812788
06/16/2013 08:50 AMPosted by SirRight
When one piece of gear is equipped that wasn't found / crafted by that player, the Self Found title is lost until they reequip all 13 slots with their own items.


I agree with everything but this. In my opinion SF title should be lost permanently when you equip something that you didnt find on your own. Otherwise people will abuse it too much.
06/16/2013 09:31 AMPosted by Thanagor
When one piece of gear is equipped that wasn't found / crafted by that player, the Self Found title is lost until they reequip all 13 slots with their own items.


I agree with everything but this. In my opinion SF title should be lost permanently when you equip something that you didnt find on your own. Otherwise people will abuse it too much.


Fully agree but there would have to be a warning "You will lose self-found status if you equip this item. Continue?" If he continues then the character should be converted to a standard character, permanently.

Thanks for the great insight!
You asked and here is a link to what I proposed --> http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9281269069?page=24#465
And I added to the giant Self Found League thread with a combined post (playstyle + Region suggestions). Added a request for increased drop rates on that Region http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9281269069?page=24#470
Hello,

Disclosure: I do not buy Equipment from the AH, but I don't fall into the strict "Self-Found" definition.

That being said, if there were no other priorities I'd say great--go ahead with this. However, to do this, requires ZERO interaction by Blizzard. Any player can follow any set of rules that anyone comes up with regarding "Self-found."

In short (call this negative if you want), this is a pride issue, not a gameplay issue, and Blizzard has many more important things to concentrate on as I see it--like actual content, itemization, etc.

I like the idea of self-found (dislike the AH), but this whole business is not a good expenditure of resources that clearly Blizzard is short on (given the time it is taking for more vital things).

Just my Opinion.
what if you just drop something on the gound for others?
06/19/2013 12:07 PMPosted by LouisDragon
what if you just drop something on the gound for others?

Violation. See my quote below..

I would like the option of playing on two additional game modes, on separate servers, within each region.

Additional server/mode #1 (single player with option to group):
- no RMAH
- no gold AH
- player to player trading is disabled
- partying is fully enabled
- 3x the current stash size

Additional server/mode #2 (single player, option to group, trade, but no RMAH):
- no RMAH
- gold AH enabled
- player to player trading is enabled
- partying is fully enabled
- 3x the current stash size

Option #1 is a purest self-found mode that many self found players would adhere to. Option #2 is basically how the Asia D3 server works without the RMAH. IMHO, if you use non-self found characters/means to bolster your self found character then you just polluted your self-found project. Stick with option#1.

Sticking to option #1 also means a fresh reset stash, blacksmith, jeweler, and zero gold. You farm your own crafting and jeweling patterns. You farm your own gems. You farm your own gold for crafting and repairs. No help coming from other players or other non-self found characters. No power leveling options. No getting carried in key runs and Ubers. Option #1 also means all of the characters softcore and hardcore can support each other if they are all self found, which leads to a purity of self-found at the account level.

You will play very differently with option #1 softcore vs live D3 US, and option #1 hardcore is an even different playstyle (more defensive).

@MissCheetah, and
@Bossdog

We're all providing good advice towards a successful implementation of a new mode of play. I hope the blues are looking this over and considering the request. I singled you two out because of a lot of good posts in other SF threads.
Hello,

Disclosure: I do not buy Equipment from the AH, but I don't fall into the strict "Self-Found" definition.

That being said, if there were no other priorities I'd say great--go ahead with this. However, to do this, requires ZERO interaction by Blizzard. Any player can follow any set of rules that anyone comes up with regarding "Self-found."

In short (call this negative if you want), this is a pride issue, not a gameplay issue, and Blizzard has many more important things to concentrate on as I see it--like actual content, itemization, etc.

I like the idea of self-found (dislike the AH), but this whole business is not a good expenditure of resources that clearly Blizzard is short on (given the time it is taking for more vital things).

Just my Opinion.


I think it adds to the game. You are correct that people can impose their own rules and play the way they want to, but if you want to play with like-minded people you often get trolls and fakers. Nothing ruins a game more than an uber character coming in and killing everything ahead of you in a couple of hits. I play solo only but would play public if this mode was available.

Can't deny it is a pride issue, that is why there are achievements. People have all best-in-slot RMAH equipment probably have pride as well.

I think this is an important (and easy) mode to employ, and will increase the interest in the game. Lots of people like playing in Ladders for much of the same kind of gameplay.

Update: Once Clans came out, it gave me the opportunity to play with other like-minded players...so I do sometimes play with other SF players.
If the Asia server didnt lag spike me at 1000+ I would have continued there... I got lowbie wiz there... spamming explosive bolts was good fun until the lag monster ate my science project... errm...uh self-found project. LoL
06/19/2013 01:49 PMPosted by BossDogg
If the Asia server didnt lag spike me at 1000+ I would have continued there... I got lowbie wiz there... spamming explosive bolts was good fun until the lag monster ate my science project... errm...uh self-found project. LoL


I've heard others say the same thing but I had no problems when my nephews came to visit and played. Maybe try the European server?
It was a random lag spike over 1000+, but continued random spikes between 400-3000 kept happening. I have non-self found chars on EU right now.
Sir Right makes an excellent summary of a logical proposed self found mode. The removal of trading (in addition to removing the AH) is essential to disincentivize botting. Separate character instances would eliminate unfair advantages for multiboxers or teams. I also like the effort to reduce power leveling.

The only revision I would propose:

-- Self found players should have separate realms, like hardcore and softcore. SF and non-SF should not be able to play in the same game. Overlapping realms would be harder to implement and balance, thus reducing the likelihood of being implemented.
06/19/2013 12:07 PMPosted by MonkeyBoy
this is a pride issue, not a gameplay issue


Not at all. At present there is no method for SF players to play with and measure their progress against other SF players. The obvious analogy is Hardcore.
Just wanted to mention that much of your ruleset seems to be overcomplicating things. All you have to do for a self found mode is to make everything BoP. Now you dont have to worry about an AH or trading or dropping things on the ground. This is assuming self found would be seperate much like hardcore is seperate which also eliminates the need to have a rule for only playing with other self found.
The programming required to institute a separate "Self-found" mode shouldn't be too difficult. We are asking for restrictions that could be disabled by terminating JumpSubroutines. My idea follows:


An you know this how? I must have missed the memo that released this part of the game code. Never mind it would add another mode Blizzard would have to support for updates an maintain. All because some people that can ignore the ah's are afraid that they might get a cheater in their ranks that would taint the game.

This whole SF mode is just plain stupid.

Selling items to vendor should give more coins because all you can do is sell them or break them down;

Item drop rates in general should be improved, especially for plans that are used by the Blacksmith and Jeweler;

lol ya just a few subroutines.. This is asking to redo the game for all practical purposes. Then they should get a halo, These people need to go play tl2, I'm sure that cesspool would allow them to mod a mode.
06/19/2013 01:46 PMPosted by Zaxxon23
Please "thumbs down" any comment that is trolling, derailing topic, or just plain being negative or childish


Cool. I plan to thumbs down the OP.


lol, this whole self found is childish.

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