~~ Freeze nerf: Change your SNS Gear ~~

Wizard
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1. I think the range of potential skill/mechanics changes are just too vast. May be better to hold gold and just buy what turns out to be effective later at the inevitable high price. Quality alternative gear is pretty expensive as it is right now. That said, having a high mitigation/sustain set as back-up is generally sage advice IMO.

2. I wonder about ET:WW. What use can it possibly have besides best proc? It costs a ton of AP and does crap damage. Maybe the other twister runes will become more viable if ET:WW is changed. I still imagine it as the best or nearly the best proc engine after a change.
Where did the devs say they were nerfing ww? Source please.
Agreed with OP.
I'm starting to think more and more that "loot 2.0" is just the expac...
07/03/2013 08:12 AMPosted by BoNeCrUsHeR
Where did the devs say they were nerfing ww? Source please.

There should be transcriptions somewhere too. It's a well known information, that "ET procs like 10 times more than intended."

EDIT: Forgot the link: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/9773964/developer-live-stream-interview-w-archon-the-wizard-5-23-2013
07/03/2013 08:19 AMPosted by ChangBooster
I'm starting to think more and more that "loot 2.0" is just the expac...

Same. But damnit, pls bring us new mode/maps too.
At the fansite meetup at Blizzard HQ that just happened last Friday (?), the CMs basically said itemization would come with core gameplay changes. No one should be surprised if nerfs happen to be part of those changes, no one.
07/03/2013 08:42 AMPosted by jenpeezey
At the fansite meetup at Blizzard HQ that just happened last Friday (?), the CMs basically said itemization would come with core gameplay changes. No one should be surprised if nerfs happen to be part of those changes, no one.


It also seems like any of these "nerfs" aren't going to happen until at least November. That's a full 5-6 months (minimum) with things the way they are now. Might as well SNS-away as usual and bump this thread come the start of November.

-dolynick
It also seems like any of these "nerfs" aren't going to happen until at least November. That's a full 5-6 months (minimum) with things the way they are now. Might as well SNS-away as usual and bump this thread come the start of November.


I already know that. I posted to answer those who were asking for "proof" of gameplay changes.
07/03/2013 08:42 AMPosted by jenpeezey
At the fansite meetup at Blizzard HQ that just happened last Friday (?), the CMs basically said itemization would come with core gameplay changes. No one should be surprised if nerfs happen to be part of those changes, no one.


not IF, but WHEN. There will be "net buffs" to every cookie cutter build, and none of the truly optimal ones will still work the same way... Basically if removing 3 pieces of gear would completely kill your current build, it is too razor thin to survive a significant nerf, and you need a contingency plan... Credit card, Gold hoard, gear hoard, or multi-class MP10 capability, so you will have some way to play during the (steep) gear-up phase.
07/03/2013 08:42 AMPosted by jenpeezey
At the fansite meetup at Blizzard HQ that just happened last Friday (?), the CMs basically said itemization would come with core gameplay changes. No one should be surprised if nerfs happen to be part of those changes, no one.

DOOMS DAY IS COMMING hahah, better be prepared...
not IF, but WHEN. There will be "net buffs" to every cookie cutter build, and none of the truly optimal ones will still work the same way... Basically if removing 3 pieces of gear would completely kill your current build, it is too razor thin to survive a significant nerf, and you need a contingency plan... Credit card, Gold hoard, gear hoard, or multi-class MP10 capability, so you will have some way to play during the (steep) gear-up phase.


When? January 2014 or later. LOL.

PTR will be up for us to find out.

I won't be hoarding gold for this long. I'm selling it.
IMO, IF ww will be nerfed, LS dagger/sword will NOT be the way to go for cm wiz. Particularly sword wiz.

Right now, sword wiz is already on the edge of compromising freezing in exchange of dps.

With the upcoming nerf on proc number of ww, sword wiz might not even be viable., even with 3LS, wiz is not a barb, if all the elites/mobs are hitting you, 3LS won't save ya all.

The way to go is for sure to stack up crit chance and may be APOC.

Dagger wiz will be in a much better place as they usually run at 2.73 bp with very nice control ability.
At the fansite meetup at Blizzard HQ that just happened last Friday (?), the CMs basically said itemization would come with core gameplay changes. No one should be surprised if nerfs happen to be part of those changes, no one.


not IF, but WHEN. There will be "net buffs" to every cookie cutter build, and none of the truly optimal ones will still work the same way... Basically if removing 3 pieces of gear would completely kill your current build, it is too razor thin to survive a significant nerf, and you need a contingency plan... Credit card, Gold hoard, gear hoard, or multi-class MP10 capability, so you will have some way to play during the (steep) gear-up phase.

Yea, prolly the propper preparation is getting LS wep (for freezers), 20 APoC (for Archons) and high damage when multiplied by lower attack speed (for slower, but bigger hits).

@Neuron
Well, if they rock 1x LS, they are better prepared than us without any LS. LoH might become new Thorns (crap) if WW will be nerfd.
07/03/2013 09:04 AMPosted by jenpeezey
It also seems like any of these "nerfs" aren't going to happen until at least November. That's a full 5-6 months (minimum) with things the way they are now. Might as well SNS-away as usual and bump this thread come the start of November.


I already know that. I posted to answer those who were asking for "proof" of gameplay changes.


I know you know that Jen. I only quoted it since it was relative to what I was adding to it. Spelling out the "known" timeframe, so to speak, for those who hadn't read the statements themselves yet.

-dolynick
07/03/2013 09:11 AMPosted by jenpeezey
not IF, but WHEN. There will be "net buffs" to every cookie cutter build, and none of the truly optimal ones will still work the same way... Basically if removing 3 pieces of gear would completely kill your current build, it is too razor thin to survive a significant nerf, and you need a contingency plan... Credit card, Gold hoard, gear hoard, or multi-class MP10 capability, so you will have some way to play during the (steep) gear-up phase.


When? January 2014 or later. LOL.

PTR will be up for us to find out.

I won't be hoarding gold for this long. I'm selling it.

Yeah I agree...
I am 99% retired from the game right now, compiled my hoard, then logged out.

Marvel Heroes is getting major item and class changes every patch every week, and I figured out the buff/nerf metagame is actually what draws me to a game, apparently. Post lvl 160 in D3 there is literally nothing to do. I can gain ~3m per day playing, roll 200 craptacular crafts, with zero sense of acomplishment since nothing drops, nothing changes. Once we are hella-nerfed and there are mysteries to be solved, I will turn in my sobriety chip like a parrot head at a reunion tour.
Nerfs shmerfs. How many times has wiz been nerfed? I believe in every patch correct? I see no reason why even with a future nerf we shouldn't be able to farm the hardest content available for the new/revamped/reworked items. We will find a way. If not, I echo Yoda's sentiment. Quittin time.

^^^ love shaggy's last line haha.
IMO, IF ww will be nerfed, LS dagger/sword will NOT be the way to go for cm wiz. Particularly sword wiz.

Right now, sword wiz is already on the edge of compromising freezing in exchange of dps.

With the upcoming nerf on proc number of ww, sword wiz might not even be viable., even with 3LS, wiz is not a barb, if all the elites/mobs are hitting you, 3LS won't save ya all.

The way to go is for sure to stack up crit chance and may be APOC.

Dagger wiz will be in a much better place as they usually run at 2.73 bp with very nice control ability.


That's assuming it will be possible to perma-freeze at all. I'd think that's their real issue with the CM/WW build. If it were me and I were "fixing" it, I'd make sure it just wasn't possible to do anymore. Period. The first thing I would do would be cut the scaling ticks with APS on WW and set them as a fixed tick rate (like every other non-channeling DoT) but there are other ways to make it unfeasible to perma-freeze too. My point is though, that if perma-freeze is no longer in the picture (and we stutter-freeze at best), then high APS isn't really required and swords will be just fine.

-dolynick
07/03/2013 09:12 AMPosted by RobertVarga


not IF, but WHEN. There will be "net buffs" to every cookie cutter build, and none of the truly optimal ones will still work the same way... Basically if removing 3 pieces of gear would completely kill your current build, it is too razor thin to survive a significant nerf, and you need a contingency plan... Credit card, Gold hoard, gear hoard, or multi-class MP10 capability, so you will have some way to play during the (steep) gear-up phase.

Yea, prolly the propper preparation is getting LS wep (for freezers), 20 APoC (for Archons) and high damage when multiplied by lower attack speed (for slower, but bigger hits).

@Neuron
Well, if they rock 1x LS, they are better prepared than us without any LS. LoH might become new Thorns (crap) if WW will be nerfd.


IMO,
Unlike barb's nado, ww is working fine currently. and that's why in the development dialogue, they put barb's ww there. Any further nerf will rend wicked wind useless, since the proc number is already extremely low.

The way they might nerf CM wiz is likely to increase cc resistance of elite/bosses and even regular white trash mobs. So that elites won't stay in place till death.

If bliz will further nerf ww, it depends on how they nerf it

If they simply nerf the overall proc number, then as I mentioned,

Sword cm wiz will be wiped out because of the APOC requirement. Dagger wiz may be in danger because of 2 sources of APOC may not be enough.

Chant wiz will face huge challenge with life regen, but in general they will be in the best place.
Worst case will be everybody stack with 3 APOC sources and run with blood magic.

Again, personally, I don't think bliz will nerf wicked wind to useless, they should be smart to learn from past failures on demon hunter's nerf.
IMO, IF ww will be nerfed, LS dagger/sword will NOT be the way to go for cm wiz. Particularly sword wiz.

Right now, sword wiz is already on the edge of compromising freezing in exchange of dps.

With the upcoming nerf on proc number of ww, sword wiz might not even be viable., even with 3LS, wiz is not a barb, if all the elites/mobs are hitting you, 3LS won't save ya all.

The way to go is for sure to stack up crit chance and may be APOC.

Dagger wiz will be in a much better place as they usually run at 2.73 bp with very nice control ability.


That's assuming it will be possible to perma-freeze at all. I'd think that's their real issue with the CM/WW build. If it were me and I were "fixing" it, I'd make sure it just wasn't possible to do anymore. Period. The first thing I would do would be cut the scaling ticks with APS on WW and set them as a fixed tick rate (like every other non-channeling DoT) but there are other ways to make it unfeasible to perma-freeze too. My point is though, that if perma-freeze is no longer in the picture (and we stutter-freeze at best), then high APS isn't really required and swords will be just fine.

-dolynick


Sword won't be fine if no perma freeze is viable.

Sword wiz is usually low on EHP and mediocre on freezing but excellent in DPS. Once they nerf freezing further, sword wiz will take hit too much ,basically not much difference from running archon.

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