Game punishes you for being different.

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OP's reference to Cloud of Bats is a little exaggerated, seeing as it isn't very efficient on very low MP's.

But in general, I completely agree with him.
Bear build is excellent. I actually prefer it over CoB.
I would like to say that I have never used the skill on my WD and didn't realize that is why ppl where using it, but since you have to channel the spell, you can't cast any other spell while using it. So lets say I cast two acid clouds and haunt on and enemy and hit him with firebombs, your right i will do nowhere near as much damage which is a shame, which means that the other skill need a dps increase. But your right, for any character class if your not using a cookie cutter build than ur dps is hindered, which really sucks cuz then every1 is fighting over the same gear and it makes the game only viable to the wealthy who can afford expensive items that go for billions of gold, or hundreds of dollas.
@BoNeCrUsHeR

Yea, I used to do bears, but since bats, they are way too weak now ...
The tooltip says :

Cloud of Bats
Call forth a swirl of bats that damage nearby enemies for 501% weapon damage as Fire. The damage of the bats increases by 20% every second, up to a maximum of 100%.

If the skill starts off doing 500% weapon damage... well 20% of that is 100% weapon damage... so it would go from 500% weapon damage to 1000% weapon damage.

The tooltip doesn't say "increases damage by +20% weapon damage".


Now I don't have a WD, but if my math is correct, the skill starts off doing 501% damage, and goes up by 20% each second, up to 100%.

Which means 521%, 541%, 561%, 581%, and topping off at 601%.

Do you honestly think Blizzard would have a skill doing 10 times weapon damage? ESPECIALLY after they nerfed the Demon Hunter's Trail of Cinders rune for Vault, which did 15x weapon damage? I think not. :P

A bit off topic: This discussion reminds me a lot about Elemental Arrow/Ball Lightning vs. Rapid Fire/Barrage for Demon Hunter. Both are completely viable builds (I prefer Ball Lightning build myself because of the mad AoE damage, but overall Rapid Fire has become king since the buff.)

Anyways, my point is that you can use whatever build you damn well please... some might just make your runs a bit slower. Who knows, you might find yet another build that's as efficient, or even more so.
I am building a Barbarian based on the comic book character Thor (see original thread here):

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9377319194?page=1#1

I'm not building this character because he will be able to farm MP10, or because it's the most efficient, or because I think it will set a new trend...

I'm doing it because it's FUN!

Isn't that what the game is about? Sheesh too much QQ these days...
@blackjack: I still use LoH. Maybe I am old :p
Simply tweaking some numbers on a couple of skills ain't going to be enough to fix the underlying problem - we are all the same...
Since every wiz and every baba is identical every individual skill in this system has to be "balanced" in order to create diverce builds.. And that is just not an ARPG design, but a MMO...
Like some guy said - D2 overcame this by giving skill points so we could choose what skill we wanted to kick !@#...
In D3's LVL - Unlock system Blizz does that for us and before the core system in this game is fixed to give choices in our build it will always be this "one build will rule them all"

It is obvious that the devs of this game only knows how to make MMOs...
07/01/2013 05:07 PMPosted by blackjack
In what universe do you have a skill that does 1000% damage (cloud of bats) for 66 mana and not expect every single WD to jump on it?


This skill only does 600% damage not 1000%, plague bats is a close second runner against this skill because it has more range and does up to 575% damage.

I don't like cloud of bats simply because its a bad AoE skill, too much start and stop, I can channel plague of bats for the same time, do less damage but kill things further away, but I find both of these techniques to be getting old.
My WD is basically grasp, spirit walk, soul harvest, spam spiders to top up mana, spam bats, repeat.
Gets monotonous and boring
@BoNeCrUsHeR

Yea, I used to do bears, but since bats, they are way too weak now ...


bears dont need a ramp up time to maximise their damage. each time you move out of plague or molten you have to re-ramp-up with cob. but not with bears.

bears still have their place in higher mp's

but cob becomes more efficient if you have enough defenses
07/02/2013 07:02 AMPosted by grovak
In what universe do you have a skill that does 1000% damage (cloud of bats) for 66 mana and not expect every single WD to jump on it?


This skill only does 600% damage not 1000%, plague bats is a close second runner against this skill because it has more range and does up to 575% damage.

I don't like cloud of bats simply because its a bad AoE skill, too much start and stop, I can channel plague of bats for the same time, do less damage but kill things further away, but I find both of these techniques to be getting old.
My WD is basically grasp, spirit walk, soul harvest, spam spiders to top up mana, spam bats, repeat.
Gets monotonous and boring


cloud of bat does 500% weapon dmg + its dmg is booted by 100% after 5 seconds. and the damage boost isnt additive. it is multiplicative. so yes it is 1000%
Sure not all the skills can be equal but if you don't pick exactly the cookie cutter build of the moment you simply suffer in terms of performance. In what universe do you have a skill that does 1000% damage (cloud of bats) for 66 mana and not expect every single WD to jump on it?

I'm sick of trying to have a different kind of build, im sick of being punished for not wanting the same build as everyone else.

Build diversity is joke in this game.


Thank you for your feedback! Build diversity is a big topic, and something we're always interested in hearing about. I think there will always be a build that yields the highest performance, but the question is about the variance. Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


Something you don't quite understand about this statement is the part where it says "Build diversity is a joke in this game" and it doesn't just apply to Witch Doctors. You have the statistic data on every single thing we do in game, Show us what builds are being used the most, perhaps? Instead of "189 million players can feed the world for 30 days on a grain of rice" BS.

And work off that, go ahead and nerf everything used the most it doesn't matter really once you get to a certain point you're horrendously OP to a point where you just want mx dmg output. God forbid you actually bring other skills up to the level of the most OP ones. And if people cry about that then you can go back to WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY back during the beginning and say "but but inferno is meant to be haaaaarrrrrrrrdddddd"
Shows how much you know about what you're talking about, which is nothing.

First of all; Cloud of bats is not 1000% damage it is 501% and charges upto 601% and costs 221 mana to start, and 66 mana to maintain.

Second; Which Doctors have the most build diversity in the game, with Bats, Bears, and 0dog all being viable. Not too mention people playing around with Pile On , Thorns, and Pet builds.


Any other WD skills that do 601% damage and cost nothing?
0s dog cooldown costs about $40.00 to make... not exactly viable.
Thorns and pet builds.... LOL.

OP is correct. Every class in the game has a cookie cutout.


Thank you for your feedback! Build diversity is a big topic, and something we're always interested in hearing about. I think there will always be a build that yields the highest performance, but the question is about the variance. Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


Something you don't quite understand about this statement is the part where it says "Build diversity is a joke in this game" and it doesn't just apply to Witch Doctors. You have the statistic data on every single thing we do in game, Show us what builds are being used the most, perhaps? Instead of "189 million players can feed the world for 30 days on a grain of rice" BS.


This
Edit: odd, this isn't even the forum I was looking at while posting what I did...
07/01/2013 08:17 PMPosted by Axmand
Thank you for your feedback! Build diversity is a big topic, and something we're always interested in hearing about. I think there will always be a build that yields the highest performance, but the question is about the variance. Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


I smell another nerf coming.

Formula for D3:

A-) 1 skill is "better" than others, people complain
B-) Blizzard nerfs that skill to the ground, people complain
C-) A class becoms underpowered & Blizzard eventually buffs another skill after people complain
D-) That skill becomes "better" then others, people complain
E-) Blizzard nerfs that skill to the ground, peopl complain

Rinse and Repeat.......

If people would stop complaining and come up with useful feedback of how to help other skills, perhaps the game would stop taking a dive due to nerfs.

Please Blizzard for the love of this game please stop listening to everyone complaints that 1 build is to OP then the rest. All this does is alienate your player base when nerf after nerf comes only to re-buff another skill, to nerf it again in the future.

The fact is bats do the most damage, however; you also have to be in the middle of the action because it has a very low radius in which it can hit stuff. It is a simple tradeoff (especially in HC) where you risk dying from being in the thick of the battle.


This


Ooookay, if you had taken the time to read the entire thread, you would have seen this, which does exactly what you ask, give you the most common skills for each class:

It only takes like 10 seconds to go over to any of these pages and see what everyone is using.

http://diablo.somepage.com/popular/barbarian#active-skills

http://diablo.somepage.com/popular/demon-hunter#active-skills

http://diablo.somepage.com/popular/monk#active-skills

http://diablo.somepage.com/popular/witch-doctor#active-skills

http://diablo.somepage.com/popular/wizard#active-skills


;-)


Pardon my lack of caring in regards to the the URL's but thats not Official blizzard stuff. I want BLIZZARD to look at it and run from it. Not some tech's pulling statistical data. Just like mmochamps, I don't care what they have to say unless blizzards puts it directly on the site.
I have never researched any "Builds". I did look up some equipment to see what others were using. I just investigate the skills and use the ones that I think will help me. I do not care if some one else can kill faster, or live longer, or farm more stuff. I play a game, not compete against the other players.

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