It's finally over, I'm mad at you Void

Wizard
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09/13/2013 12:37 PMPosted by PieHole
Funny how Melk has more armor than me.....even when running GC, lol.

That, with his high base DPS, is huge.

Must be dollars from his rap!
Melk - LOH is 20% worse at 2.5 than 2.73 so first I'd try to get back up to 2.73. But TBH you're a LS candidate now. Once getting to your DPS LOH is hard as discussed. Thats why I dont run GC. I think its a mistake for you to run it too. Common 15% who gives a fuk really. Compare to dying not worth it.


Yup.

09/13/2013 12:25 PMPosted by PieHole
More regearing.


oof..pass lol

09/13/2013 12:32 PMPosted by yodatoy
I say stick to where you are


Yup.

At the end of the day, I'm thinkin...craftables. The answer lies in craftables. Ammy, as ridiculously unlikely as this may be, needs work. Bracers with Vit may allow a DPS roll on tri-gloves..Shoulders...well I really don't see those improving.

09/13/2013 12:37 PMPosted by PieHole
Funny how Melk has more armor than me.....even when running GC, lol.


It's my "Aimless" button. Run with Aimless? Turn it off. Run without Aimless? GC FTW!
Do you notice a huge difference with GC? I realize its a pretty big jump in DPS and doesn't require you to give up Teleport for Magic Weapon to get a DPS boost. I also think you like seeing that DPS above 300K;) It is hypnotic.
GC + Shell + SOJ = win
09/13/2013 01:14 PMPosted by Hub
It is hypnotic.


It's also a little deceptive.

A) It lowers your sustain (eHP/s regained) because of the mit loss. Even with lifesteal the increased damage does not offset the loss in mit in terms of sustain. It's even worse with LoH because it does nothing to increase life/s regain. Dropping GC would definitely help Melkor handle RD easier.

B) Swapping in Evocation is also an effective eDPS increase with SNS. It's just simply faster EB and DS shots. It won't be 15% more overall DPS like GC, but it would not surprise me if it was a 5%-10% in eDPS (in some scenarios at least). It also has the benefits of no mit loss, better freeze strength (less incoming damage or chances for elites to pop abilities), and better sustain (more LoH from extra casts or just dps to LS off of, faster DS refresh as a buffer to lessen the load on your sustain).

I like Glass Cannon. I really do. But there are a lot of things going against it, especially in an SNS build. All power to Melkor for making it workable up to this point.

-dolynick
I like Glass Cannon. I really do. But there are a lot of things going against it, especially in an SNS build. All power to Melkor for making it workable up to this point.


I always hate GC with passion. I tried to get it worked for my whole d3 career and never ever ever satisfied. It's just too glassy...

I ran the full circle. ultimately, I like my final set up. High LOH/high CD dagger. LOL. and inna pants. or just cookie cutter mempo/chanto set.
09/13/2013 01:28 PMPosted by dolynick
Swapping in Evocation is also an effective eDPS increase with SNS.


Hmm,..interesting...hadn't really thought about that...and I don't remember anybody testing that

(digs though the dusty old posts)

Oh, holyfork, ofc: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004691927

ShockNadoShards (120052 Buffed DPS, 58.5% Crit, 2.79 APS, w/ Hellfire Proc) 1:19, 1:20, 1:21 for an average of 1:20 = 883k Sustained DPS (7.35x relative to test DPS)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#VQXYhT!bWg!YYcccc

SNS w/ Blur instead of Evocate (120052 Buffed DPS, 58.5% Crit, w/ Hellfire Proc) - 1:19, 1:20, 1:20 for an average of 1:19.7 = 885k Sustained DPS (7.38x relative to test DPS)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#VQXYhT!ZWg!YYcccc

So...about the same with and without evocation.

At least these are his findings.
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It's my findings as well. On Ghom, evo doesn't really help me with edps. In theory it should. In practice, almost no difference in kill time averages.
I would imagine that Evocation is more effective as a multiplier increaser for lower BP's...As we approach those higher bps, I fear that input limits and what have you shave off any/all benefits gained.
09/13/2013 01:39 PMPosted by yodatoy
I always hate GC with passion. I tried to get it worked for my whole d3 career and never ever ever satisfied. It's just too glassy...


I do get it to work. I only have 2 issues - one of which no amount of mit will save you from:

1)Poison trees
2) RD

oh wait..and Belial. That dude splats me.
09/13/2013 02:01 PMPosted by Melkor
I would imagine that Evocation is more effective as a multiplier increaser for lower BP's...As we approach those higher bps, I fear that input limits and what have you shave off any/all benefits gained.


it seems to come up at a 0.25 to 0.35 miltiplier increase across all breakpoints in the d3CMWW simulator. Ofc, it doesn't take into effect any sort of latency.
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Posted by HubIt is hypnotic.It's also a little deceptive


Being over 300K is the hypnotic part;) Pretty much why I haven't been playing my Wiz cause it just pisses me off to look at 270K.
09/13/2013 12:52 PMPosted by RobertVarga
Funny how Melk has more armor than me.....even when running GC, lol.

That, with his high base DPS, is huge.



Oh, you have no idea . . .
09/13/2013 01:48 PMPosted by kiza
It's my findings as well. On Ghom, evo doesn't really help me with edps. In theory it should. In practice, almost no difference in kill time averages.


Yes I misspoke a bit there. The reason it doesn't register much on a Ghom test is because most of our cooldown reduction is done by CM. So it's more like an extra 1.5 procs per second instead of a 15% increase. There should still (in theory) be some increase though. It should also register a bigger increase at lower BPs (as you suggest) and in multi-target scenarios where EB+Shards becomes a larger portion of our total eDPS.

-dolynick
09/13/2013 02:11 PMPosted by Hub
Posted by HubIt is hypnotic.It's also a little deceptive


Being over 300K is the hypnotic part;) Pretty much why I haven't been playing my Wiz cause it just pisses me off to look at 270K.


I've always wanted to take a class and understand human minds about numerology. y2k !@#$ like that. I can understand aiming for 21 because I can drink then otherwise,,, . to me 298 is same as 300 same as 302. They are just numbers, It's really relative that matters and your 270 won't make much a difference to 300 since its only like 10% boost.

My new hypnotic goal is 307K so there.


Being over 300K is the hypnotic part;) Pretty much why I haven't been playing my Wiz cause it just pisses me off to look at 270K.


I've always wanted to take a class and understand human minds about numerology. y2k !@#$ like that. I can understand aiming for 21 because I can drink then otherwise,,, . to me 298 is same as 300 same as 302. They are just numbers, It's really relative that matters and your 270 won't make much a difference to 300 since its only like 10% boost.

My new hypnotic goal is 307K so there.

Human beings are drawn to round numbers, such as 20, 100, 300, 1,000, etc. Why? It's related to the "completedness." A lot of it is thanks to what we see in society day in and day out.

Do you set your alarm for 8:00 a.m. or 7:58 a.m.? Do you heat food in the microwave for 3 minutes or 3 minutes 12 seconds? Does Betty Crocker tell you to put the cake in the oven for one hour or 63 minutes? Do you preheat the oven at 320 degrees or 317?

6'0" or 5'11"? Do I want to gain or lose 10 pounds by December or will 8.6 pounds be enough? Barring I'm not a UFC fighter, of course.

Did you know MLB players are more apt to finish a season batting .300 than .299? In their minds there is a sense of accomplishment finishing at the former number. Players will drive themselves to reach that threshold. The 100 RBI level is a magic number. Why do sports track by the last 10-game record and not 8 or 11?

It's also been studied that high school students are more likely to retake their SAT if they don't finish above a round number. For example, students who score 1198 will try to shoot for 1200+ their next time around more than someone who scores 1208. The same applies for someone who scores 1380 and retakes for 1400+ than someone who scores 1420. Scoring a 79, which is a C+, against a 80, which is a B-. Or 90, which is an A- compared to a 89 for B+. An honors student will likely need a GPA of 3.0 and above. 2.99 will not cut it.

Do we talk D3 item trades in terms of 2 billion gold or 1,989,942,103? Do we sell an item to someone for 100M gold or 102,005,816 gold?

Round numbers stand as personal achievements and goals and also for the sake of simplicity in terms of reference. The real reason(s) why human beings behave this way is still largely unknown as studies are still being conducted. Regardless, it's fascinating.
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@Jaetch
You know what humans beings also like: brevity.

Human beings are drawn to round numbers.. aaand stop.

I'm just playing with you.
But srsly, way too much.

@dolynick
You know, I never actually tested that versus aps difference. Huh, I guess I learned something new today. thanks.
I just checked my phone alarm is 5:13

I only press 3 on micro because thats the fast cook option like most of your examples it's for simplicity sake. Anyway my point is more is always better instead of arbitrary rounding as goal. Like I liked 31 act more than 28 first time i took it. Second point is 270 vs 300 is not a dimes with a difference in game. So dont sweat it. Certainly dont make comprises on D for it.
@dolynickYou know, I never actually tested that versus aps difference. Huh, I guess I learned something new today. thanks.


I haven't really tested it in game myself either. It's theorycrafting but it should be backed up by the simulator too. It's basically the same idea as adding APS to increase procs for a higher multiplier. I believe the theory is mathematically sound (that it will add a little to the eDPS multiplier) but what actually happens in game with a given person's build isn't always the same.

-dolynick
It's just nobody makes an accomplishment out of random numbers. There has to be a reason. But there are also special numbers that peek interest as well:

    123456789
    666
    77777
    8888
    13579
    2468
    And probably some other.


If someone produced some math saying that the maximum possible DPS is 567,819.36, then people would care, regardless of it being simple or neat.

What if I showed math saying that you need 394,376.59 @2.738 APS and 60CC with a 7.60 multiplier to average 3M eDPS against a single target?

[quote]Fighting 1 target(s) for 30s - 1000 samples
Average seconds between commands = 0.0708s (4.25 frames with FPS=60)
APS = 2.7384 [36 WW ticks per cast] ; Crit Chance = 60.00% ; APoC = 17
Character sheet DPS = 394376.59 ; Weapon DPS = 1426.25
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Average DPS = 2997654.34
(DPS / Character Sheet) Ratio = 7.60
DPS from Wicked Wind = 736904.59 [24.58%]
DPS from Chain Reaction = 908258.37 [30.30%]
DPS from Diamond Shards = 300311.99 [10.02%]
DPS from Storm Armor base = 252955.36 [ 8.44%]
DPS from Shocking Aspect = 775509.78 [25.87%]
DPS from weapon attack = 23714.26 [ 0.79%]
Average freeze uptime = 77.37%
Average seconds per Frost Nova cast = 1.31 seconds
Average Frost Nova casts per fight = 22.89
Average seconds per Diamond Skin cast = 1.24 seconds
Average Diamond Skin casts per fight = 24.15
Average Wicked Wind casts per second = 1.77
Average active twisters = 9.30
Average Chain Reaction casts per second = 1.83
Average global cooldown uptime = 92.29%
Average CM procs per second = 9.65 (89.07% from WW)
Average APoC gain per second = 95.62 (105.62 w/ passive regen)
Average AP spent per second = 98.43
Average Arcane Power = 74.60 (out of max 114)
Average life gain per second = 7579.58 (100.00% from LoH)[/qoute]

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