[Pool] Monthly balancing with no dust refund (Y/N)

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Let's just be honest here.
The reason blizzard doesn't nerf obviously OP cards for years and rather wait for them to get rotated instead of touching them is because they are greedy (nothing wrong with being greedy by the way), they don't want to give full dust refund to players.

Would you rather get no dust refunds if that makes blizzard actually make balance changes, let's say, once a month?
I am sure as hell I would like that.
Nope. I craft golden cards for decks I like quite often, change them and I expect full compensation for my RL currency.
I'm of the opinion that any nerf is wrong. If Blizzard started changing cards every month I would quit the game. I boycott Duelyst because of that bull!@#$ and I'd quit Hearthstone too.

My cards shouldn't change after I open them. If a card is "OP" it should be banned from ranked play, not deleted (because nerfing a card is the same thing as deleting it and replacing it with another one).
Or they can ban the original and let it only craftable.

And after it they can put the new one in the place of the first.

No dust needed and even this way the nerfs will be not to much because blizzard is not only this in HS.

Blizzard is this way in almost all his games.
True, this is ONE of the reasons. But there are others too.

But hell no, I demand my dust refunds AND more nerfs.
09/20/2016 07:15 PMPosted by Bahatmaan
I'm of the opinion that any nerf is wrong. If Blizzard started changing cards every month I would quit the game. I boycott Duelyst because of that bull!@#$ and I'd quit Hearthstone too.

My cards shouldn't change after I open them. If a card is "OP" it should be banned from ranked play, not deleted (because nerfing a card is the same thing as deleting it and replacing it with another one).


Amen.
Absolutely not. You can make an argument for more frequent balance adjustments (although considering that no class is over 20%, no deck over 10% not a good one) but doing the kind of whack-a-mole balance that you're suggesting is death to a collectable game.
I don't see how a full dust refund on the rare occurrence that they make a change is a bad system.
I don't think nickle and diming over some dust is the reason they're opposed to frequent changes. Blizzard has been very generous actually, I'm not sure why people even think that. It's unfair.

Why they don't change has probably more to do with their own design ideals than it does with some petty dust.
Monthly is way too often. MAYBE every 3 months if it is really necessary. Even that is probably too often. If the game really needs to be changed that much they need to get new devs and get their act together. There's no excuse for putting out that much bad product.
I werent aware of the fact that more frequently balance patches would actually disturbe some people. I would wish them more often and thought it would be consensus.
Also i wish more patches due to the rasp than due to the saw
09/20/2016 07:15 PMPosted by Bahatmaan
I'm of the opinion that any nerf is wrong. If Blizzard started changing cards every month I would quit the game. I boycott Duelyst because of that bull!@#$ and I'd quit Hearthstone too.

My cards shouldn't change after I open them. If a card is "OP" it should be banned from ranked play, not deleted (because nerfing a card is the same thing as deleting it and replacing it with another one).

What i find BS is people that would rather keep a broken card than fix it. Nerfing (and buffing) cards is a necessity for CCG and paper ones are forced to use banlists because sometimes you print something that unintentionally get exploited. Online CCG like HS have this tool and HS don't use it. It's totally ridicolous.
09/21/2016 12:02 AMPosted by DMaster2
09/20/2016 07:15 PMPosted by Bahatmaan
I'm of the opinion that any nerf is wrong. If Blizzard started changing cards every month I would quit the game. I boycott Duelyst because of that bull!@#$ and I'd quit Hearthstone too.

My cards shouldn't change after I open them. If a card is "OP" it should be banned from ranked play, not deleted (because nerfing a card is the same thing as deleting it and replacing it with another one).

What i find BS is people that would rather keep a broken card than fix it. Nerfing (and buffing) cards is a necessity for CCG and paper ones are forced to use banlists because sometimes you print something that unintentionally get exploited. Online CCG like HS have this tool and HS don't use it. It's totally ridicolous.


Because on ladder Yogg isnt anywhere near as broken as some people claim. The random nature has a chance to normalise which it doesnt have in a tournament setting.

I will ask you as I have others to propose a nerf which doesn't completely kill the card and just reduces the 2 inherent extremes associated with it (insta-win or insta-lose) as THAT is the only problematic area regarding Yogg on ladder. You lose, you queue again. Nothing lost but a bit of time.

Yoggs AVERAGE result really isnt that far off what you would expect from a 10M legendary card, the extremes could use a minor tweak and that is something I cant think of a reasonable fix to without destroying the card.
09/21/2016 12:07 AMPosted by Critcat
Because on ladder Yogg isnt anywhere near as broken as some people claim. The random nature has a chance to normalise which it doesnt have in a tournament setting.

I will ask you as I have others to propose a nerf which doesn't completely kill the card and just reduces the 2 inherent extremes associated with it (insta-win or insta-lose) as THAT is the only problematic area regarding Yogg on ladder. You lose, you queue again. Nothing lost but a bit of time.

Yoggs AVERAGE result really isnt that far off what you would expect from a 10M legendary card, the extremes could use a minor tweak and that is something I cant think of a reasonable fix to without destroying the card.

Yogg is as broken in ladder as it is in tournament, and the average don't even out because yogg inherently heavily favor the caster. So please stop this argument.
I'm not in charge of card balancing (and apparently no one is even on Brode's team since we saw the disaster they did with nerfs). Still the card needs a total rework. You have to pick a poison, either keep it competitive worthy but totally nerf the insane rng around it or keep it the god of chaos it's supposed to be but make it truly fair, by casting each spell from a random side. No longer flamestrike will only destroy your opponent's field.
Nope. I'd never spend another dime on this game. And this is coming from a guy who's spent hundreds on it and plans to spend hundreds more buying every adventure and every expansion with a bonus card back, plus all Mage heroes and glyphs if they ever create them.
09/21/2016 01:04 AMPosted by DMaster2
and the average don't even out because yogg inherently heavily favor the caster.


The average is what you would expect when paying 10M for a card. Its the extremes which are the issue, and nothing you have said is based on the average result. Its based on the extremes, which I agree could use adjustment.

The cards average result is 100% fine for ranked play, its the extremes that need to be addressed which, conveniently, you did not manage to achieve in your post. Average result board wipe (both sides) and draw a few cards. Extreme, or above average results: CotW, buffs, secrets, flamestrike. THESE ARE NOT COMMON, I know I play a lot of Yogg deck!

09/21/2016 01:04 AMPosted by DMaster2
So please stop this argument.


You first. Balance is based on the average results, and Yogg is within the acceptable realm for ladder play as YES the average has a chance to become normalised. This does not mean 50/50, it means that the 2 extremes have a chance to cancel each other out, while still benefiting the player of the card (as you would expect from a 10M legendary). Why would I include a card which costs 10M that, ON AVERAGE, will benefit me less than 60% of the time? Especially when said card has one of the worst stat lines for its mana cost in the game.

Yogg is fine for ladder as is!
09/21/2016 01:13 AMPosted by Critcat
09/21/2016 01:04 AMPosted by DMaster2
and the average don't even out because yogg inherently heavily favor the caster.


The average is what you would expect when paying 10M for a card. Its the extremes which are the issue, and nothing you have said is based on the average result. Its based on the extremes, which I agree could use adjustment.

The cards average result is 100% fine for ranked play, its the extremes that need to be addressed which, conveniently, you did not manage to achieve in your post. Average result board wipe (both sides) and draw a few cards. Extreme, or above average results: CotW, buffs, secrets, flamestrike. THESE ARE NOT COMMON, I know I play a lot of Yogg deck!

09/21/2016 01:04 AMPosted by DMaster2
So please stop this argument.


You first. Balance is based on the average results, and Yogg is within the acceptable realm for ladder play as YES the average has a chance to become normalised. This does not mean 50/50, it means that the 2 extremes have a chance to cancel each other out, while still benefiting the player of the card (as you would expect from a 10M legendary). Why would I include a card which costs 10M that, ON AVERAGE, will benefit me less than 60% of the time? Especially when said card has one of the worst stat lines for its mana cost in the game.

Yogg is fine for ladder as is!

The average result with a 7+ spell yogg you can expect is a board clear, 1-3 cards drawed, 0-2 secrets and probably a couple of creatures on your field. I don't see it fine at all.
09/21/2016 01:57 AMPosted by DMaster2
The average result with a 7+ spell yogg you can expect is a board clear, 1-3 cards drawed, 0-2 secrets and probably a couple of creatures on your field. I don't see it fine at all.


And thats acceptable when expending your entire mana pool on the weakest bodied 10 drop in the game.

Card draw is not always a good thing, fatigue is an issue when you play a 10 drop. Secrets, this might be the most appropriate nerf to remove them from the pool of spells available as they introduce not only RNG, but also are impossible to determine as you can when comparing a Freeze mage to a Tempo Mage.

You dont see it as fine, that is your opinion which you are entitled, I DO think Yogg is fine and just needs a minor tweak to reduce the extreme results for ladder purposes.
09/21/2016 02:06 AMPosted by Critcat
09/21/2016 01:57 AMPosted by DMaster2
The average result with a 7+ spell yogg you can expect is a board clear, 1-3 cards drawed, 0-2 secrets and probably a couple of creatures on your field. I don't see it fine at all.


And thats acceptable when expending your entire mana pool on the weakest bodied 10 drop in the game.

Card draw is not always a good thing, fatigue is an issue when you play a 10 drop. Secrets, this might be the most appropriate nerf to remove them from the pool of spells available as they introduce not only RNG, but also are impossible to determine as you can when comparing a Freeze mage to a Tempo Mage.

You dont see it as fine, that is your opinion which you are entitled, I DO think Yogg is fine and just needs a minor tweak to reduce the extreme results for ladder purposes.

If you think an average result like that is acceptable it's ok. But i do hope you weren't one of the many that asked for a Dr. Boom nerf...
09/21/2016 01:04 AMPosted by DMaster2
09/21/2016 12:07 AMPosted by Critcat
Because on ladder Yogg isnt anywhere near as broken as some people claim. The random nature has a chance to normalise which it doesnt have in a tournament setting.

I will ask you as I have others to propose a nerf which doesn't completely kill the card and just reduces the 2 inherent extremes associated with it (insta-win or insta-lose) as THAT is the only problematic area regarding Yogg on ladder. You lose, you queue again. Nothing lost but a bit of time.

Yoggs AVERAGE result really isnt that far off what you would expect from a 10M legendary card, the extremes could use a minor tweak and that is something I cant think of a reasonable fix to without destroying the card.

Yogg is as broken in ladder as it is in tournament, and the average don't even out because yogg inherently heavily favor the caster. So please stop this argument.
I'm not in charge of card balancing (and apparently no one is even on Brode's team since we saw the disaster they did with nerfs). Still the card needs a total rework. You have to pick a poison, either keep it competitive worthy but totally nerf the insane rng around it or keep it the god of chaos it's supposed to be but make it truly fair, by casting each spell from a random side. No longer flamestrike will only destroy your opponent's field.


Wait. You mean playing a 10 mana card has a positive effect more often than a negative one.

ZOMG. Stop the presses!

Clearly we should make the card useless, so that it doesn't help a player playing it win.

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