Class Rebalance

Play Mode Discussion
I think it's pretty safe to assume by now that the current standard system doesn't really work when it comes to class cards. Some classes start with everything and need little to nothing to make viable meta decks (hi mage and warrior) while others are complete garbage unless they get heavy support from expansions (hi shaman and priest). What's really wrong is how the "core set" works. Classic plus basic is not going to work because it wasn't designed with formats in mind.

What blizzard should do right before the standard year 2017 go live is to completly change the way standard works. No more classic forever, now standard will be the core set (along with the basic cards) plus the last two years worth of content. What is the core set? Well it's a set composed of a mix of cards from classic, naxx, gvg, brm, tgt and loe. I made some swaps here and there with the basics and the core set of each class to make things a little more balanced.

Now i swear i tried to make this working on this forum but it only end up being an unreadable wall of text so i just post a link to this topic i already made in hearthpwn (there i could highlight every card, so much easier to read)
If you are interested:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/175205-class-rebalance
11/02/2016 03:22 AMPosted by DMaster2
I think it's pretty safe to assume by now that the current standard system doesn't really work when it comes to class cards. Some classes start with everything and need little to nothing to make viable meta decks (hi mage and warrior) while others are complete garbage unless they get heavy support from expansions (hi shaman and priest). What's really wrong is how the "core set" works. Classic plus basic is not going to work because it wasn't designed with formats in mind.

What blizzard should do right before the standard year 2017 go live is to completly change the way standard works. No more classic forever, now standard will be the core set (along with the basic cards) plus the last two years worth of content. What is the core set? Well it's a set composed of a mix of cards from classic, naxx, gvg, brm, tgt and loe. I made some swaps here and there with the basics and the core set of each class to make things a little more balanced.

Now i swear i tried to make this working on this forum but it only end up being an unreadable wall of text so i just post a link to this topic i already made in hearthpwn (there i could highlight every card, so much easier to read)
If you are interested:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/175205-class-rebalance

I support the idea of a core set, even if the cards that should be in it are up to debate. Basic+Classic as a core is pretty umbalanced for the reasons you pointed out, and may be disastrous for wild.
Just think of Priest. Priest has no good aoe in his basic+classic set (Nova is a joke and Auchenheal is a unreliable combo), so to keep it relevant (Because, you know Blizz, a control class needs AoE), they're basically forced to print new Priest AoE in every expansion. Problem is that wild will be polluted with Priest AoE in the long term from all the sets that rotated out. And that's bad.
Pretty cool. Obviously the individual cards are debatable but the concept and reasoning for your selections is sound. Good work!

Edit: Don't forget to stick it on Reddit so Blizzard will read it ;)
Completely agree. Blizzard is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole by making cards permanent that were never designed for that. As long as they continue on that path they will repeatedly fail to balance the classes with new cards.

Unfortunately the Hearthstone team values simplicity above anything else, even at the cost of gameplay. I don't think they will be making major changes to how the rotations work.
This sounds promising
Personally I'd prefer overhauls of the classes to get the core fundamentals straight and even set the groundwork for some basic synergies. Then we could let expansions add to various synergies ; maybe create new ones to diversify the meta .. at least a little bit.

On the other hand getting a good "core set" of cards would certainly be an improvement over what we have now.
The Classic set should function as a core set. Blizzard is going through the process of balancing the set so it functions effectively. As an example, if Holy Nova was buffed to 3dmg it would be an excellent evergreen AoE. I'm also a fan of having as large an evergreen set as possible. Right now, the evergreen set is a little under 400 cards. If you were to decrease the size of that set, you'd have to dramatically increase the size of each subsequent expansion. That creates balance problems since, despite all the expert game designers on this forum, it's not particularly easy to balance a CCG.

TL;DR, Blizzard should continue to balance the Classic/Basic sets. This includes buffing bad classes so they could be viable without use of expansions. As an aside, this would mean buffing Shaman. I'd love to see the public relations sh*tstorm that causes.
11/02/2016 06:24 PMPosted by StorminMike
The Classic set should function as a core set. Blizzard is going through the process of balancing the set so it functions effectively. As an example, if Holy Nova was buffed to 3dmg it would be an excellent evergreen AoE. I'm also a fan of having as large an evergreen set as possible. Right now, the evergreen set is a little under 400 cards. If you were to decrease the size of that set, you'd have to dramatically increase the size of each subsequent expansion. That creates balance problems since, despite all the expert game designers on this forum, it's not particularly easy to balance a CCG.

TL;DR, Blizzard should continue to balance the Classic/Basic sets. This includes buffing bad classes so they could be viable without use of expansions. As an aside, this would mean buffing Shaman. I'd love to see the public relations sh*tstorm that causes.

That's just my preference, the preference of a simple player that never partecipated in developing and designing card games. As such, my idea of balance might not (and it's probably not) the same as Brode's team. What i wanted to promote was the concept in general.
I really think this game need to stop going the way it's going now and do what they should've done with the introduction of standard.
The rest are just minor issues. Too many cards are problematic, cool, cut down to classic's amount (i still feel that we don't have enough cards, but ok i guess). Don't like x card? Sure, swap with something else.

Also keep in mind that the core set can and should be changed when the standard year change. For example if next standard year they want to release a new pack with mechs, they can bring back a couple of mechs (not the broken ones possibly) replacing stuff. A card is too strong to be always in standard? Instead of nerfing it to the ground, just swap it with something else that is currently in wild. A card is really unique and worth keeping? Instead of auto-rotating it at the end of standard, just add it to the core set.
The online format gives devs a flexibility paper ccg never had and it's about time they start using that to their advantage.

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