IS "if you played an elemental last turn" the new Joust?

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I am beginning to see some parallels between the two mechanics. People thought joust wouldn't be that prohibitive if you built your deck around it but even in its best match ups you barely won the joust 40% of the time. The elemental requirement has a similar problem, namely you won't always have played an elemental the turn before. Just like you couldn't control the mana cost of the other players deck, you can't control what your opponent draws, what rng rolls he wins etc. Meaning any sort of reactive elemental cards will be difficult to use effectively.
Yes, well said. Reward < Risk

Try again Blizz.
As with all these threads its just way to soon to tell. If they print low cost elementals there should be no problem

You can control when you want to play a card, you cant control what card will joust the opponents. Combo decks manage to draw their cards, I dont see why elemental decks wouldnt
Unlike the 40% of an even Joust, you control what you play the prior turn. If anything it resembles the dragon mechanic, which has been consistently meta relevant.
The one thing I thought of right after I posted this was the case of a 100% proactive deck. In that kind of deck this mechanic wouldn't be a hindrance as long as they created enough cards to support it.

Oh well serves me right for impulse posting
03/21/2017 04:26 PMPosted by Frozenwind
Unlike the 40% of an even Joust, you control what you play the prior turn. If anything it resembles the dragon mechanic, which has been consistently meta relevant.


Thats my thought as well. You want activator (proactive elemental) and synergy card (reactive elemental), in hand. And like dragons there is some overlap in that your reactive card also activates your next elemental.

Depending on the rest of the set/elementals I could see it running into some consistency issues like Dragon Priest is notorious for.
Eh its more similar to if you have a dragon in hand- not just because of the tribal nature of the effect but because you control it.

Need the effect but don't have an elemental to play before it? It sits in the hand until you've got the elemental or you need the body desperately enough.

The one note I'll make is it is slower than dragons- dragons the moment you draw the dragon into hand you can use the desired card, these you need to draw and play the elemental then wait until next turn for the effect which may be prohibitively slow. We shall see.

But no, not like joust, there was no control there but is here.
There's a world of difference between a random effect you can't control and a wholly deterministic effect you can.

The bigger and more worrying similarity with Joust is that Joust Minions partly failed because they were very sub-par if the Joust failed and only slightly above average if it succeeded (with a few small exceptions). I'm a bit concerned that cards like Stone Sentinel, for example, aren't good enough when the work to make up for all the times they'll be a 4/4 for 7.
03/21/2017 04:14 PMPosted by Redoing
Just like you couldn't control the mana cost of the other players deck, you can't control what your opponent draws, what rng rolls he wins etc.
What? The thing you can't control is the order you draw YOUR cards in. Your opponents deck is irrelevant to the elemental mechanic.
03/21/2017 04:14 PMPosted by Redoing
Meaning any sort of reactive elemental cards will be difficult to use effectively.
I think no such card has been revealed so far.
IF we see any reacitve elemental cards, then your concerns might be justified, but right now you are saying your umbrella might be to small while facing a blue sky...
03/21/2017 04:35 PMPosted by Bowser
03/21/2017 04:26 PMPosted by Frozenwind
Unlike the 40% of an even Joust, you control what you play the prior turn. If anything it resembles the dragon mechanic, which has been consistently meta relevant.


Thats my thought as well. You want activator (proactive elemental) and synergy card (reactive elemental), in hand. And like dragons there is some overlap in that your reactive card also activates your next elemental.

Depending on the rest of the set/elementals I could see it running into some consistency issues like Dragon Priest is notorious for.


Eh, should be more consistent than Dragon as there's always been an issue finding decent early game dragons, forcing you run relatively few in order to curve properly. Elementals have a better low end. And there seems to be several ways to put Elementals into your hand, which only had one analog with Dragons (that was not a dragon).
03/21/2017 07:34 PMPosted by bloodyjigsaw
03/21/2017 04:14 PMPosted by Redoing
Just like you couldn't control the mana cost of the other players deck, you can't control what your opponent draws, what rng rolls he wins etc.
What? The thing you can't control is the order you draw YOUR cards in. Your opponents deck is irrelevant to the elemental mechanic.
03/21/2017 04:14 PMPosted by Redoing
Meaning any sort of reactive elemental cards will be difficult to use effectively.
I think no such card has been revealed so far.
IF we see any reacitve elemental cards, then your concerns might be justified, but right now you are saying your umbrella might be to small while facing a blue sky...


Trying to think of ways to effectively use the board sweep of big daddy Kalimos is what made me think of this train wreck of a tread to begin with. The whole train of thought went something like "so much of this game is based on RNG, big single turn swing plays, and top decks, how effective will predicting these things really be when it comes to expending your elementals in order to set up a "response." How reasonable is the concept of setting up a turn ahead of time when you telegraph your plays. Are the elemental cards going to be strong enough on thier own to make this deck work or we going to have a swingy deck where you have to draw the exact right way to be good similar to what Dragon priest was in early BRM?"

Truth is they might not add in anything like Blackwing corruptor or Book Wyrm, but even something like Taunts and Face heals that don't work on demand could prove to be problematic
03/21/2017 08:30 PMPosted by Redoing
<span class="truncated">...</span> What? The thing you can't control is the order you draw YOUR cards in. Your opponents deck is irrelevant to the elemental mechanic.
<span class="truncated">...</span>I think no such card has been revealed so far.
IF we see any reacitve elemental cards, then your concerns might be justified, but right now you are saying your umbrella might be to small while facing a blue sky...


Trying to think of ways to effectively use the board sweep of big daddy Kalimos is what made me think of this train wreck of a tread to begin with. The whole train of thought went something like "so much of this game is based on RNG, big single turn swing plays, and top decks, how effective will predicting these things really be when it comes to expending your elementals in order to set up a "response." How reasonable is the concept of setting up a turn ahead of time when you telegraph your plays. Are the elemental cards going to be strong enough on thier own to make this deck work or we going to have a swingy deck where you have to draw the exact right way to be good similar to what Dragon priest was in early BRM?"

Truth is they might not add in anything like Blackwing corruptor or Book Wyrm, but even something like Taunts and Face heals that don't work on demand could prove to be problematic


I reckon you are definitely on to something, it's easy when looking at these new cards to just assume the elemental condition will be fulfilled when you need it, but this isn't always going to be the case.

I do like the fact that it allows for play and counterplay, your opponent played 4 elementals on turn 8? you can guess they want to drop Ozruk next turn, so maybe you drop a protected doomsayer to make them waste their activators.

You're a shaman being overun by zoolock, drop an elemental on turn 7 and your opponent has to fear Kalimos the primal lord wiping his board next turn , and will perhaps trade his low health minions in, perhaps you are double bluffing and actually have no way to deal with a wide board etc.

The fact you have to save activators and telegraph your elemental plays will lead to some high skill moments, but they also subtley weaken the elemental tribe.
They are similar but very different at the same time. Both offer "great" power, at a cost.

Joust totally leaves you at the mercy of RNG. Elemental bonus does leave you somewhat vulnerable to RNG. If you don't draw any Elemental, your deck will fall apart (much like Dragons). You will need to "think" carefully instead of mindlessly dumping your hand.
Why play elementals when you can play bigger jade golems?

It's kinda sad how new archetypes are inferior to existing ones.
03/21/2017 08:53 PMPosted by megajeff
You're a shaman being overun by zoolock, drop an elemental on turn 7 and your opponent has to fear Kalimos the primal lord wiping his board next turn , and will perhaps trade his low health minions in, perhaps you are double bluffing and actually have no way to deal with a wide board etc.

I think this is the first real mechanic in Hearthstone where you can actually bluff your opponent.

You can either bluff or hope for a lucky top deck next turn. Your opponent would have to guess whether or not to continue the aggression or play defensively.

In theory, anyways.
This is closer to "if you control X do Y" only you don't need to control X, you simply need to have played it the previous turn. Its survival is irrelevant.
03/21/2017 10:44 PMPosted by Leonis
03/21/2017 08:53 PMPosted by megajeff
You're a shaman being overun by zoolock, drop an elemental on turn 7 and your opponent has to fear Kalimos the primal lord wiping his board next turn , and will perhaps trade his low health minions in, perhaps you are double bluffing and actually have no way to deal with a wide board etc.

I think this is the first real mechanic in Hearthstone where you can actually bluff your opponent.

You can either bluff or hope for a lucky top deck next turn. Your opponent would have to guess whether or not to continue the aggression or play defensively.

In theory, anyways.

Well, you can play Emperor Thaurissan or Alexstrasza to bluff having lethal next turn.
it's great build if u're going first 1st cuz u're doing CURVE stone LIKE ALL CURVESTONE DECKS however if u're second and you have to go REACT stone... THen u get REKT stone!
I much prefer this "last played" mechanic, than "if holding a" mechanic
I prefer elementals or dragons because you can set it up as opposed to random stuff like joust or discard.

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