How to deal with 4x Sorcerer's Apprentice

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04/11/2017 12:44 AMPosted by QQsnuss
04/11/2017 12:37 AMPosted by EvilMark
It's a 6-card combo (2x SA, 2x MR, AA, any 7 mana or less spell) that requires them to also complete the quest while staying alive. It is far from broken.
4

Actually only 5... you can simply cast the second molten reflection in the extra turn with toni... but since you need to have the Quest completed its not really a 5 card combo.... and yea dirty rat destroys it (unless they get lucky and get a third reflection while you pull just an apprentice )


Theoretically, Dirty Rat COULD help, but I just played a game where my first one pulled Shimmering Tempest and second pulled the 2 mana 2/3 draw a secret. Bad luck.
04/11/2017 12:37 AMPosted by IamNotAnumbr
Update:

1. The Dirty Rat idea was AMAZING :)
2. It also works against the Quest Rogue. I used it to stop the run for the quest on 3/4 and then won :)

Thank you again!


Yes, yes it does. That's why I use 2 of 'em in my Quest Warrior deck. I guess I should probably think about putting one in the N'zoth Dragon Kazakus Priest deck I'm going to be making.
Dirty Rat is really your best hope. I've played games where the Mage generated so many Frost Novas/Blizzards that I couldn't even break his first Ice Block, so Eater of Secrets wouldn't have helped me.

However, there have been several games where I Dirty Rat out a Girl or Archmage, and the Mage just concedes immediately.

The real weakness to Exodia Mage is that it has one single combo as its win condition, and if you bust open that combo with Dirty Rat, the game just ends. You'll win from Fatigue before they'll be capable of killing you.

It's the one card I'm considering running duplicates in my Unicorn Priest because it's that good.

It's also generally good. One of the few "universal answers" that tends to hold up in a lot of situations.
04/11/2017 01:04 AMPosted by MeltedWater
the N'zoth Dragon Kazakus Priest deck I'm going to be making.


I Pre-Hate you for this bro ... :P
04/11/2017 01:11 AMPosted by IamNotAnumbr
04/11/2017 01:04 AMPosted by MeltedWater
the N'zoth Dragon Kazakus Priest deck I'm going to be making.


I Pre-Hate you for this bro ... :P


Hehe, sorry. I played against one myself. Kinda annoying. xD

I have one now I've played with some in casual, without Amara or Umbra because I don't yet have them, and doing good. I can only imagine with them how good it'll be!
04/11/2017 12:37 AMPosted by EvilMark
It's a 6-card combo (2x SA, 2x MR, AA, any 7 mana or less spell) that requires them to also complete the quest while staying alive. It is far from broken.


This. And i've played this deck a lot so far, and it has been the best experience i've had in Hearthstone since vanilla hearthstone, i love this deck.
Hey what if someone made a bounce deck with 2x Dirty Rat & 2x Vilespine Slayer with mill core maybe? (Wild only though)
04/10/2017 11:46 PMPosted by IamNotAnumbr
Am I the only one who finds this stupid?
Played several games against a Mage that manage to copy his/her Apprentice and then played infinite number of Fireballs. In my last game I had 20 armor on my warrior and still lost after he time-warped.

Any ideads about how to deal with this silliness? ?


Stop using the top meta warrior deck.
04/11/2017 12:26 AMPosted by Monlyth
04/11/2017 12:22 AMPosted by Zalkir
Infinite damage zero cost loop is not, ever, good design. I'm a little floored this one got by.

You do realize that this "infinite damage zero cost loop" has been technically possible since the beta?


Was there any way to do it in Vanilla in under 3 turns?

Edit: Ok, 2 turns with the coin.
04/11/2017 12:26 AMPosted by Monlyth
04/11/2017 12:22 AMPosted by Zalkir
Infinite damage zero cost loop is not, ever, good design. I'm a little floored this one got by.

You do realize that this "infinite damage zero cost loop" has been technically possible since the beta?


Not nearly as obnoxious or easy to do.
04/11/2017 07:23 AMPosted by Psychologic
04/11/2017 12:26 AMPosted by Monlyth
...
You do realize that this "infinite damage zero cost loop" has been technically possible since the beta?


Was there any way to do it in Vanilla in under 3 turns?

Edit: Ok, 2 turns with the coin.


Using vanilla only cards, if you alarm-o-bot turn 3 (turn 2 with coin), your opponent plays millhouse, and your bot pulls toni it's gg if you have a spell. That's the earliest you could do it I think, and requires a stupid opponent.
Update:
I played my Quest Druid deck vs a Mage.
I have Dirty rats in it.
I have played it against him.
The rat pulled out an apprentice.
I killed it.
The mage still won.

on another game, I played my STUPID hunter deck.
the only reason I won after the mage played like 5 iceblocks was thanks to my explosive trap, that he triggered with one of his 3 or 4 apprentices.

I played like 3-4 games as hunter. was bored. this is not going well....
Nothing is perfect I've had a fair bit of success against Mage using my priest, stole an ice block or 2 and h has no way to kill me, I pack silences to make it hard to complete there quest, yes they are powerful once they get the combo off however try playing the deck and seeing just how hard it is to pull off.. keep trying =]
04/14/2017 05:27 AMPosted by Kirikoe
Nothing is perfect I've had a fair bit of success against Mage using my priest, stole an ice block or 2 and h has no way to kill me, I pack silences to make it hard to complete there quest, yes they are powerful once they get the combo off however try playing the deck and seeing just how hard it is to pull off.. keep trying =]


I dont really care about the "rarity" of the combo. the fact is they can cycle thru their deck and get their combo cards and win while having my minions frozen for the etire game.

This is not my idea of having fun.
It's not because it's not "your" idea of having fun that it must be forbidden or nerfed.

But let see it otherwise.

This is a deck that requires both a 5 card combo AND a quest fulfilled to be able to win. You agree that if your opponent was able to fulfill his quest and assemble his cards, he should be granted an advantage?

This is a deck able to win regardless of the current state of the board when the combo is assembled : you can have 80 armor, it won't change much. I understand this causes some frustration.
However, you must understand that it is part of the strategy of the deck. The deck admits that you will have the board presence and the health. Those parts of the game are sacrificed in order to win.

If the mage must go to the very last card of his deck to get antonydas, and/or if the out-of-game spells aren't ice block, pressuring the deck can totally win.

Currently, you can defeat the deck by sheer luck (mage unable to assemble his combo, I've seen games where all generated spells were 6mana+ or unplayable secrets)
You can also win with rat.
You can also win per fatigue.
You can also win with a steal-spell on counterspell/iceblock

I don't mind capping the number of damage the deck can do in one turn, as long as we cap the maximum health/protection/armor a player can set, otherwise the game will be reduced to "fastest aggro vs thoughest armor".
04/14/2017 05:22 AMPosted by IamNotAnumbr
Update:
I played my Quest Druid deck vs a Mage.
I have Dirty rats in it.
I have played it against him.
The rat pulled out an apprentice.
I killed it.
The mage still won.


Yes that can happen, because mage can get molten reflection from one of their random spells. You really have to hit the Toni.

Best to save the dirty rats to play them both together with a way to kill Antonidas and then try and wait as LONG as possible for this to happen. Mage can still go off without one apprentice, but it's harder to win with 0 apprentice. So double dirty rat should kill the deck flat out.

It's worth noting that the mage can still go off without all the pieces in their hand. As long as they can generate at least 3 apprentice on their turn they can cast free arcane intellects to dig for the other pieces and draw out. Antonidas + second apprentice or molten reflection is only 8/9 mana, so any free spell still wins them the game.
04/10/2017 11:59 PMPosted by BestFurryNA
Idk why no one mentions Flare. Sure it's one class, but that's one hell of a win con.


Why put a hard counter card in your deck that weakens all your other matchups against a deck you have 80% winrate against anyway?
04/14/2017 06:22 AMPosted by Prisme
It's not because it's not "your" idea of having fun that it must be forbidden or nerfed.


No the problem is that the deck is mechanically non-interactive that it's a problem.

Your literal only answer is dirty rat.

Everything else is the mage constantly playing freezes and blocks to delay the game. Typically the mage doesn't kill anything you have, they don't worry about preserving a board, they play spells and blocks and delay the game.

Furthermore the deck just fizzles sometimes, or loses, doesn't get to the end of the combo. The bigger problem is that even after you win and beat the deck you didn't do ANYTHING. You just sat there playing out your stuff until your opponent just lost. The deck is poorly constructed based on the known mechanics standards that Blizzard set in place.

Let's just do a little comparison here. It's basically freeze mage with a different set of win pieces. A deck that's been around since Hearthstone started, except that back then it was double molten giant and burn. It's been said multiple times that decks should have a natural progression and that they don't want to keep the same decks around forever, and yet freeze board + play ice block + build an OTK is something mage consistently does. It might not be a good deck, but it's certainly a deck that seems to violate the ideals of the Blizzard designers from what they've said.

And it's also just not a fun deck.
Dirty Rat and make sure you have removal for either one of their Apprentices or Antonidas. (If you play the Long Game,) Otherwise, aggro decks with Secret Eater should be able to murder the mage long before they get their combo off.

Good luck, friendo.

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