9.1 Update - Regarding Fiery War Axe Update

Play Mode Discussion
Prev 1 2 3 4 16 Next
and it's amazing how +1 mana sends it from god tier to trash tier.
Mr. Brode please give us something powerful next expansion for tempo and control warrior mains.
09/07/2017 12:04 PMPosted by EnSabahNur
Oh Blizzard doesn't think we're too stupid to read. They think we're too lazy to read. Thanks for the clarification.


Obviously reading comprehension is lacking because he explained the exact reason why some one may miss the change to a card. Do none of you understand what muscle memory is?

ffs
Ben dude, you forgot Jade Idol!
Isn't the first thing that happens after a patch is... "The following cards have been changed" with explanations of what has happened. Shouldn't that be enough to keep people up to date.
I could care less how you choose to word your nerf description, it's just playing with words.

The real question is "why now" when the class isn't doing too well outside of pirate warrior?

If pirate warrior is a concern, are there literally no other cards that you can target besides a staple class card?

If war axe is a concern, why can't you introduce the nerf at the start of a new expansion or rotation? Or is that too much work that you had to lump it together with the druid nerfs?
Saaa-wing and a miss!
09/07/2017 11:23 AMPosted by RexSaur
Doesnt change how its still a really bad reasoning.

"we dont think players are stupid but players never doublecheck their cards"

Lmao, way to contradict yourself, sure on the first few days it might catch someone by surprise, but then everyone will just get used to it, its not like FWA will be getting changed once every week...

We all arent 10 year olds Brode.
not to mention they have changed other cards text's and not the crystal cost. so that makes no sense to me at all. so it's like you said way to contradict yourself. This is really not looking good blizz.
It's called fiery win axe for a reason. It was included in 99.8% of warrior decks. As someone said, it made any attempt to create a 2 drop warrior card a waste of time as they'd still run the win axe. Remember last year when warrior had 3 or 4 tier 1/2 decks? Every one ran the win axe. Yes the card was oppressive and a nerf was over due. And guess what? It'll still see play!
Looks like Blizz never learns from their mistakes.

Last time they destroyed the perfectly fine Rockbiter that was an important tool for various fair shaman decks and only really a problem in aggro shaman, and once again an aggro deck that could be weakened in a plethora of reasonable ways is the alibi for an ENTIRE class getting shafted.

And don't start with the 'War Axe was a staple in too many decks' nonsense again. Do you want to see more diversity? Then take care of the actual overpowered cards and comboes that warp the meta so players can actually try unique decks without getting helplessly crushed.

You know what else could help? Redesigning the masses of unplayable garbage that clutter the basic and classic set, but instead of making generally good cards that fit into everywhere, creating groups of cards that excel in certain very different decks.

Staples are only really a problem now because if you look through the evergreen set you either find the aforementioned garbage or the universally good cards. There's no choice to make. Make sure there will be!
09/07/2017 11:46 AMPosted by xsi
druid and priest are to strong, so we decided to nerf shaman and warrior.
-blizzard 2k17


I'm with you, but don't forget the murloc pala nerf
Still stupid. People don't just memorize the attack/health/durability, people memorize the mana cost too. Changing that !@#$s with that just as much.
Nice to hear from the devs, but that is a completely pointless talking point
09/07/2017 12:11 PMPosted by Alpr
and it's amazing how +1 mana sends it from god tier to trash tier.

Think of it as a +50% increase in cost, it guts the tempo value of the card
"We don't think players are dumb, we're just constantly changing the core set of evergreen cards to better fit the yearly rotation."
09/07/2017 11:46 AMPosted by xsi
druid and priest are to strong, so we decided to nerf shaman and warrior.
-blizzard 2k17


The vast majority of site that rank decks, and the vast majority of pro player agree that the actual tier 1 is

- Aggro Token Druid
- Jade Druid
- Murloc Paladin
- Pirate Warrior

Pirate warrior and murloc shaman are among the strongest deck right now, along with druids (both token and jade version)

But i get that shaman nerf is surprising, especially hex. It's not a powerful card, it's not even run in most evolve shaman deck. So shaman aren't getting nerfed really but this hex change seems to come out of nowhere.
The only way to fix you mistake is by changing these cards into something that is interesting.

Give axe an enrage effect.

Give innervate a reason to be played that is interesting and thematic to the class.

Then you can try to save face.
09/07/2017 11:14 AMPosted by Ben Brode
Recently, we've seen a lot of discussion about our recent nerf announcements. Someone sent us this question, and we wanted to post a response:

I see a lot Hearthstone players upset or making fun of this idea that Blizzard has put out there that changing a card's mana cost is a better way to change a card because it's easier for players to understand. Is Blizzard maybe underestimating its audience here? Or are fans not being understanding of all players?

Here's the relevant text from [url="https://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/21029448/upcoming-balance-changes-update-91-9-5-2017"]this blog[/url]:

Fiery War Axe has been a powerful Warrior weapon since the launch of Hearthstone. Already great tempo for its cost, Fiery War Axe is well complemented by Pirates and cards that synergize with weapons. Raising its mana cost by 1 will slow down the Warrior’s tempo and lower the overall power level of the card.

What other changes did we consider?

The other option we considered for Fiery War Axe was to lower its attack to 2, but that change didn’t feel intuitive enough. Generally, changing the mana cost of a card is less disruptive, because you can always see the mana cost of cards in your hand.


I always love to read discussion about Hearthstone, and there's been a lot of healthy back and forth about the pros and cons of this particular change and the timing of it.

However, some of what I read in the community response seems to be a core misunderstanding that we are nerfing cards because we think players are confused by them (and therefore we think players are stupid). I want to be super clear – these cards are being nerfed for power level reasons, or because we are curating the set of evergreen cards to help Standard feel fresh and more fun with our yearly standard rotation. The language about certain changes being more disruptive than others was related to why we decided to make one change over another, once we'd already decided to make a change.

We absolutely don't think players are stupid.

I, like a lot of players, have memorized every Hearthstone card. If I show you a picture of Arcanite Reaper, I bet you don't have to read the card to know that it's a 5/2 weapon. Art becomes a shortcut to game mechanics. When we change the underlying game mechanics without changing the art, players who don't read their cards every time they play a game won't notice that one of the words on the cards has changed.

I want to make this clear – we don't think players are too stupid to read their cards. We think players have the capacity to memorize thousands of cards' text, and recognize them by art alone. Nobody double-checks Arcanite Reaper to make sure it's still a 5/2 weapon each time they cast it. That's nuts. That's why it's less disruptive to change mana cost than Attack, Health, or card text. The card is literally not castable or highlighted green any more, and that makes it obvious that a change has been made to players who have every card memorized.


That is NOT the issue here ben. You say that you wanted to adjust war axe because of pirates. What about control warrior? Warrior has ZERO acceptable removal on 2. WTF are we supposed to do now? Huh? WHAT? CW is in bad enough shape already. If you want to nerf pirate warrior then idk, why dont you nerf the pirates. This whole balance patch STINKS of "Buy more packs". Is that your plan? Additionally, you fail to adress the deck most of us wanted adjusted most. JADE. With these changes Jade gets stronger than it was before. You've made the problem deck we all hated even stronger. How can you sit there with a straight face and tell us that these are good changes? So, what, we can play another 3-4 months of endless jade druid on ladder? I dont think so. If thats what you want us to do, then im as good as gone. Im not putting up with it.
This whole balance patch STINKS of "Buy more packs".


There are legitimate complaints, and then there's salty nonsense. Accusing Blizzard of pushing people to buy packs because of the FWA change is salty nonsense. Stick to legitimate complaints. The fact that the FWA change impacts Warrior far beyond Pirate decks is a legitimate complaint.

You've made the problem deck we all hated even stronger.


The changes never were oriented towards eliminating Jade Druid. Your personal dislike for the deck is irrelevant to the changes. The announcement explained what the changes were supposed to do, and nowhere does it state, "Made this change to remove Jade Druid from the meta".

You Anti-Jaders are just going to have to accept the fact that your irrational hatred of Jade Druid is not a valid reason to specifically target the deck for removal. Blizzard thinks the changes will open up the meta and allow more variety. That greater variety does NOT imply that Jade Druid must get the heave-ho. In fact, the changes seem to imply that Blizzard is OK with Jade Druid remaining a Tier 1 deck. All they seem to want to do is reduce it's representation somewhat. Will the changes accomplish that? This remains to be seen.
09/07/2017 11:43 AMPosted by SevnElements
09/07/2017 11:36 AMPosted by Vankrys
Yes, in vacuum, firey war axe become with the nerf a worse eaglehorn bow, rallying blade or shadow blade, but warrior is a class that has tons of card synergy like upgrade!, bloodsail raider and cultist, not to mention other weapon like arcanite reaper to complement the deck.


Paladin and Hunter are also classes with numerous decent class specific one and two drops that do things to establish board presence before dropping down their 3 cost weapons while Warrior has one class specific two drop and one class specific one drop to play before a turn 3 weapon, and the turn 3 weapon overrides the biggest benefit that the one drop provides. If you're going to not compare things in a vacuum you have to compare the big picture.

It's silly that a class that was designed with the intention of not being given anything to aggressively contest the board early because the one tool they had was more than enough has that tool taken away with nothing (not even a promise of something) to compensate.

But it's almost insulting when the reason it was done looks like (and I'm not saying it was mind you) a response to a single deck archetype that's rotating out of standard in a matter of months when you could have just changed the cards that were only used in that archetype to not improve the power level of FWA from "very strong" to "broken".


would you be happy if the nerf was

"can't attack hero" instead of a mana cost change. that only target deck that use fiery war axe to go face, rather than control the board, namely pirate warrior.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum