9.1 Update - Regarding Fiery War Axe Update

Play Mode Discussion
Prev 1 4 5 6 16 Next
How is it that the big announcement when you start up the game announcing changes insufficient?

I really don't buy the "disruption" argument. Not for things like favoring one corner over other corners.
09/07/2017 03:11 PMPosted by MightyOwl
Holey crap, Ben Brode posted here and not on reddit. Madness.


https://i.imgur.com/xgz9nkR.gif

PS. Thanks for the nerfs brode. Let's hope balance changes will happen more often if necessary.
Your argument only holds up for a week tops. People will realize the change after they play the card once.

That is without even considering players that actually stay in the loop about balance changes, or the giant notification that blizzard usually displays when you log in after any card charges.

So what, is accidentally playing a 2/2 FWA one game going to be so traumatic that the player gives up HS for good?
Brode.

Brodester.

Country Brode.

This really feels like an answer to a question that wasn't really being asked. 99% of the "discussions" about the FWA nerf all revolve around the philosophy of depowering Basic cards to incentivize the utilization of newer sets. Other than a bit of fluff about "keeping things fresh" this entire post has the appearance of an effort rooted in ignorance as it spends so much time addressing something not actually being complained about.

I don't even have a problem with the idea of making newer sets more tantalizing by removing the auto-include power of certain basic cards, but this post does one of the following:

A) Makes you look out of touch with your playerbase, and therefore ignorant or uneducated on the issue.

B) Makes it look like you think the players ARE dumb as this post feels like a bunch of words to distract players from what they're really ticked off about.
It would show a degree of respect for your players' intelligence if someone clearly explained why a long-standing archetype like Control Warrior was summarily pushed from C-tier to unplayable by a series of nerfs designed to punish aggro, and why it was done mid-release cycle with no opportunity for new cards to replace what was lost for another two months.

Thanks Ben!
Please reduce Ultimate Value's draw to 2.

Would make the game slightly more fun and interactive.
You think players really don't reread cards when a giant version of them gets displayed on screen as they get played? Or how the game client tells you that changes have been made to cards when nerfs roll out, and you have to close that dialogue box to continue? No wonder you guys cater to aggro decks
09/07/2017 11:14 AMPosted by Ben Brode
I want to make this clear – we don't think players are too stupid to read their cards. We think players have the capacity to memorize thousands of cards' text, and recognize them by art alone. Nobody double-checks Arcanite Reaper to make sure it's still a 5/2 weapon each time they cast it. That's nuts. That's why it's less disruptive to change mana cost than Attack, Health, or card text. The card is literally not castable or highlighted green any more, and that makes it obvious that a change has been made to players who have every card memorized.

I still don't get this reasoning.

Suppose you nerfed it to a 2/2 for 2 weapon. Wouldn't the experience of attack a mana wyrm with the axe and NOT killing it be as much of a giveaway that something has changed?

How is learning about card changes in the way I described above any worse than the discovery that your key turn 2 can't be played on turn 2 anymore?

This response has nothing to do with the Fiery War Axe nerf by the way. I'm personally fine with this particular change. I just think the insinuation that a player will 'learn' quicker from a mana cost change easier than any other change is preposterous.

Another example to illustrate:
Turn 6, I draw my first War Axe of the game...
- Play War Axe not looking at the mana cost
- Play Frothing without looking at the mana cost
- Try to play Whirlwind but realize it cannot be played.

The player is now confused and hasn't learned what changed to prevent this turn from happening without exploring all 3 cards. Did changing the mana cost of War Axe TRULY help the learning process a great deal more than anything else?

Your players aren't stupid. They'll figure it out. Either through the in game loading screen that explains the change...or through using the card in game...or through searching online after being confused why a card isn't working properly.

Stop letting this concern be a deciding factor in nerfs and just do the change that's best for the game. If you felt 3 mana was best then GREAT! Again, I agree with the war axe nerf put into play.
That´s adaptive lol

AFTER the changes players WILL memorize the new text and link it to the art.

That´s no excuse to limit the nerfs done to mana only , that´s actually... non sense

The game´s only problem right now are decks that summon a bunch of OP minions with low mana , and can draw the cards necessary to summon all that in ONE turn.

That´s fixable by mana rising sure, but in the right cards

I like you brode but honestly that explanation makes no sense.
This nerf is fine.

Warrior doesn't need to be tier 1 every single meta.
Ty Ben, 2 mana weapon with different stats would confuse me. Also hex is broken, shamans on ladder are annoying. You should consider buffing priest, I think Anduin is really weak, maybe some discover a legendary from your deck effect?

Btw you should nerf another basic cards like preparation, every rogue player plays two copies and miracle is here since beta. Keep going, I want to buy more packs.

ps: I play druid and I think this game is balanced.
09/07/2017 04:12 PMPosted by Scoria
Btw you should nerf another basic cards like preparation


You really are easily confused, aren't you? Prep is an epic, it has a purple crystal.
There is no reasoning behind his reasoning lol,when will people get this?
Its close to utter nonsense and people are responding to it as if it was serious.
Its just a troll,feeding the forum a bit.

That they did lump hex into this is a bit disappointing but the card must have been bothering blizzard designers for quiet a while,i guess we are lucky that they didn't use the opportunity to change more basic cards.
I don't mind seeing basic cards go after such a long time but I would prefer them to be HOF instead so that they are at least still viable in wild.

And maybe just rotate the whole basic set,give everyone a complete new basic set for free. It could be a big boost to the amount of active hearthstone players.
Sooner or later it has to be done,slowly removing/nerfing all the basic cards does not attract new players. A whole new and free basic set to start with would.
That's probably the lamest excuse I've ever heard for nerfing a card.....Ben, if you didn't want to tell us the real reason, it would have been better if you'd say nothing ok?!
09/07/2017 11:14 AMPosted by Ben Brode
these cards are being nerfed for power level reasons, or because we are curating the set of evergreen cards to help Standard feel fresh and more fun with our yearly standard rotation.


Translation:

"We wanted to nerf the basic cards because then people must acquire cards from new sets to be stay competitive, increasing our profits."

Better to stay on reddit if you were going to insult our intelligence like this
HEARTHSTONE AND BEN BRODE SHOULD BE DELETED FROM THE INTERNET
09/07/2017 03:28 PMPosted by Wardrum
Brode.

Brodester.

Country Brode.

This really feels like an answer to a question that wasn't really being asked. 99% of the "discussions" about the FWA nerf all revolve around the philosophy of depowering Basic cards to incentivize the utilization of newer sets. Other than a bit of fluff about "keeping things fresh" this entire post has the appearance of an effort rooted in ignorance as it spends so much time addressing something not actually being complained about.

I don't even have a problem with the idea of making newer sets more tantalizing by removing the auto-include power of certain basic cards, but this post does one of the following:

A) Makes you look out of touch with your playerbase, and therefore ignorant or uneducated on the issue.

B) Makes it look like you think the players ARE dumb as this post feels like a bunch of words to distract players from what they're really ticked off about.
I could not have said it any better. so true but so sad I would feel very embarrassed if I was him.
warrior don't have other good base class card removal in 2 slot to remove a 1/3 2/3 3/2 minion , slam is needed to draw and cleave is not played .

i think they target the wrong cards , pirates are a problem .druid jades too , ultimate infestation .

why to not make a game by players for players , give right to talk to the streamers , pro players and community and ask them what they think we should nerf , which direction of the game they want and based on that , nerf right cards and release expansions .

fun is cool in this game but frustrations of overpowered decks is not .

continue to make cool and fun things like moorabi and develop for that it can be cool but let talk about what community think the game need .

why to not buff old classic cards they need it and this can provide new startegies , if not all classic cards only a few , and why not every week so meta can evolve continusly.
(and not counting new players that will be attracted to the game )
09/07/2017 11:14 AMPosted by Ben Brode


we don't think players are too stupid to read their cards.


i dont have college degree but thanks ben
Hey Ben! Thx, for making Ultimate Broke Back so powerful. I use it every day and am so glad it slid past the nerfs. See you out on the battle fjield.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum