Its time for blizz to stop being so greedy with this game

Play Mode Discussion
09/24/2017 03:03 PMPosted by MightyOwl
Yep. This is how I explain it to my friends now:
1. Each day you do the quest.
2. You then get a dozen more wins to get a total of 100 gold.
3. You buy 1 pack.
4. Congrats! Repeat this 365 times and you'll get 1 full expansion. There are 3 expansions a year plus a classic collection that you will never complete. Good luck!

None of them play the game anymore, obviously.
lol thats so funny i know 3 people who stopped for the same reason and almost no one on my friends list gets on anymore.
I would never recommend this game to my best friend, my sister or anyone I really care for. That says it all.
New player experience in HS can't be fixed by conventional means anymore. Even if you give a new player 100 free packs to start with, that will not even remotely help them in any shape or form.

Ladder needs to change completely and most importantly, there should be rewards for playing and not only winning.
09/24/2017 11:19 AMPosted by HailFall
Daily Quests:
The majority of daily quests are currently less than half of 1 pack worth of gold. It usually evens out to 50-60 with your wins earnings. That's still not much. 1 pack every 2 days is why you pretty much HAVE to play arena if you want to get anywhere.

Pack repeats:
The game doesn't prefer to give you cards you don't already have except with legendaries, so a lot of the time when i open a pack its 2 commons i'll never use, 2 commons i already own, and 1 rare for a class i don't play. Lol. Overwatch recently implemented a system making loot boxes significantly less likely to give repeats, and although its not f2p, something to at least give less repeats would definitely make sense in hearthstone considering how hard you need to work for packs in the first place.

Disenchant value:
Disenchanting cards gives very little back. Disenchanted commons give 1/8 of their dust value back... Disenchanted rares give 1/5 of their dust value back... Disenchanted epics and legendaries give 1/4 of their dust value back... Very little value return from getting the cards you didn't want. And most cards from packs are commons you don't want, leaving you kind of cheated. The average pack, $1.50 in price, of 4 commons and 1 rare, is equivalent to 1 common you actually want of dust.

Pack price:
Over a dollar a pack... lolwut? Over a dollar for 5 random cards, probably 4 useless commons and 1 useless rare, oftentimes for classes you don't even play. Loot chests in heroes of the storm are very similar, except they cost 100 gems each ($1, less if bought in bulk), are given for free every time you level up a hero, and can even be rerolled with gold. Hearthstone's packs have an incredibly low value:price ratio

No, its not impossible to get anywhere f2p. But it is an extremely long grind to get there.


It is a complicated issue - be too generous and nobody spends.

Be too expensive - nobody wants to buy.

Personally, if I were to invest in MtG, there is always a buyer. I may not be able to sell them at original price, but I can still sell them.

"You're a jobless slob that can't even afford to pay a few dollars for a game!"

Well, no, I am not because anything/everything digital has no resale/trade value whatsoever. I would rather spend my hard-earned cash on a game I can buy and trade in, or a product that is tangible and re-usable.

That might be an old-fashioned way of thinking but it is mine. I can't be the only one that feels this way. With that being said, I think packs should be cheaper and easier to acquire.

And then sell dust packs in the shop.

Every other game has that ONE currency you can purchase with real cash. Vainglory has ICE for skins. Marvel Future Fight has blue stones you can buy. Summoners War: Sky Arena has red crystals you can buy with cash.

So, why not allow people who spend money buy dust? Even as a F2P player, I might even be tempted to buy some real dust to craft some cards. There are so many x-pacs - I don't even bother trying to keep up anymore.

Ladder is a joke and I don't even have any of the cards I need to defeat Arthas for that pack. I keep homebrewing decks, googling, etc.

"You need Ysera."

"This deck won't work without Lyra."

Well, I only have 500 dust so...yeah. No frozen throne pack for me, I guess. Why am I even playing this game? Because I desperately want to see it go somewhere? I have this misguided faith that it'll become something good, eventually?

Addiction? A deterrent to a real life issue I'm subconsciously ignoring? I don't know. It's definitely sad, and discouraging, though.
09/24/2017 03:18 PMPosted by Dushku
You want Blizzard to give you more, but accuse them of being greedy?
"Those workers during the industrial revolution who wanted better working conditions were so greedy, not the filthy rich factory owners!"
09/24/2017 06:05 PMPosted by HailFall
09/24/2017 03:18 PMPosted by Dushku
You want Blizzard to give you more, but accuse them of being greedy?
"Those workers during the industrial revolution who wanted better working conditions were so greedy, not the filthy rich factory owners!"


If that is how you view the game you should reexamine how you spend you recreational time. Or work on your analogies so they actually hold some similar context.

Also maybe bone up some history.
Odd I made a post exactly like this about a week ago and got utterly downvoted into the ground. You seem to be fairing a lot better.

The only different things I recommended was sales and no daily cap on won gold.

I have no idea why they won't have sales for older packs. If you are worried about people overbuying for dust value just put a limit on the amount bought.

And as for the 100 gold a day from 30 wins cap, why? If someone wants to play longer don't completely turn them off of it by giving them nothing for time invested. You can play LoL, Dota, HotS until your eyes bleed and still get rewarded. This is the only game I know of that limits you.

I bought 5 classic packs with 530 gold it took me all week to earn today. Ive been thinking about making a quest mage deck and realized I have 0 blizzards, 0 ice blocks. The sad part is I've been actively playing since beta and still don't own these cards lmao.... Got nothing but garbage and duplicates.

Thanks Blizz for an entire week of grinding I got pretty much 200 dust which doesn't even cover one ice block I need.

Regardless though I completely agree this company is far to greedy.
09/24/2017 01:36 PMPosted by TardisGreen
The price of the game is really determined by supply and demand . Google it.

Capitalism is the greatest economic system in the world.

Unfettered Capitalism is the most Predatory system in the World..
Daily Quests: The majority of daily quests are currently less than half of 1 pack worth of gold.


The problem I see here is that not everyone has the same goals or objectives. For a brand new player, even if Blizzard upped the average reward for quests to 300 gold a day they would probably say it was nowhere near enough. But for someone who is a veteran, 300 gold a day would be insanely generous and they'd never buy a pack again because they'd be awash in gold.

I think Blizzard's model is based around the concept that a person who does the daily quests faithfully will on average get around 7,000 to 9,000 gold between expansion releases. That will allow a person to buy around 70 packs for 'free', which is enough to get a solid chunk of a set (though certainly lot ALL of it).

So all the F2P gamers who want to use quest gold as a vehicle to get all the PAST expansions are going to be frustrated because I don't think Blizzard sees questing as a means to acquire the whole library. I think they see it as a system that allows a F2P gamer to "keep up" with the game, rather than to "catch up".

Pack repeats: Something to at least give less repeats would definitely make sense in hearthstone considering how hard you need to work for packs in the first place.


Of course everyone would love a system where there were never duplicates, but there comes a point (particularly with commons & rares) that duplication is inevitable. At that point, it's all dust anyway. As it stands right now, the random system still gives a player pretty much 100% of the commons and 95% of the rares with about 50-60 packs. Not seeing much need to do one better in that regard.

Disenchant value: Very little value return from getting the cards you didn't want.


Sure, the ROI for dust is lousy. But it's infinitely better than ZERO, which is the ROI you get duplicate cards in a game like MtG. We'd all love a better ROI on duplicates, but Blizzard has to cut the bologna somewhere, and so far the current system isn't bad. What is the ROI you'd want them to set cards at? It seems like one of those things that would always be a moving target depending on a person's opinion ... much like how much gold gained from quests.

Pack price: Over a dollar a pack... lolwut?


Hearthstone's pack price per card is pretty much at the industry standard. MtG cards are somewhat more expensive, by comparison.
Like the poster above me said, gold accumulation allows you to keep up as a f2p player, but don’t expect to fill out multiple past expansions for free.
09/24/2017 01:36 PMPosted by TardisGreen
The price of the game is really determined by supply and demand . Google it.

09/24/2017 03:33 PMPosted by Leonis
Pharma Bro must have missed your memo.

09/24/2017 04:24 PMPosted by First123
Technically, Pharma Bro isn't in trouble for him hiking the price of something in high demand. He was charged with security fraud related to his other dealings

Hmm, how curious! Nowhere did I say that was he was in trouble for even in this context.

Maybe not trying to be some sort of "expert" will help with that reading comprehension.
09/24/2017 07:20 PMPosted by Leonis
Hmm, how curious! Nowhere did I say that was he was in trouble for even in this context.


... and nowhere did I say you said he was in trouble. Curious indeed!

Tardis talked about supply and demand. You brought up Pharma Bro. So I pointed out some technical details about Pharma Bro as related to supply and demand.

09/24/2017 07:20 PMPosted by Leonis
Maybe not trying to be some sort of "expert" will help with that reading comprehension.


All I did was post some information anyone can look up with a bit of Internet search (or just paying attention to the news). I think the word(s) you're looking for isn't "expert", but "an informed adult"
09/24/2017 07:42 PMPosted by First123
All I did was post some information anyone can look up with a bit of Internet search (or just paying attention to the news). I think the word(s) you're looking for isn't "expert", but "an informed adult"


lmao...in a card game forum...
I think the easiest way they can support f2p just make it 10 gold per win instead of per three wins. So you "only" need to win 10 games to hit the gold cap.

Assuming 8 minutes per game and 50% win rate, that still takes a little under three hours, a non-trival amount of time for the average player to reach the gold cap. (At 10 gold per three wins it is basically a full time job.)

That should allow all players alike (f2p or generous supporters of the game) to build up a little piggy bank for the next expansion.

On average you need about 150 packs to build 2-3 meta decks and 300 packs to build most decks.
09/24/2017 07:47 PMPosted by Hearthstone
lmao...in a card game forum...


Huh? Since when did being in a card game forum stop you from being an informed adult?
09/24/2017 07:49 PMPosted by Wtflag
I think the easiest way they can support f2p just make it 10 gold per win instead of per three wins. So you "only" need to win 10 games to hit the gold cap.

Assuming 8 minutes per game and 50% win rate, that still takes a little under three hours, a non-trival amount of time for the average player to reach the gold cap. (At 10 gold per three wins it is basically a full time job.)

That should allow all players alike (f2p or generous supporters of the game) to build up a little piggy bank for the next expansion.

On average you need about 150 packs to build 2-3 meta decks and 300 packs to build most decks.


This. On top of doing quests, earning the gold cap per day is too much. Yeah, you can be FTP and competitive...if you have literally nothing else to do, and constant access to free wifi and you suffer from untreated insomnia...
Yeah, you can be FTP and competitive...if you have literally nothing else to do, and constant access to free wifi and you suffer from untreated insomnia...


So, a F2P gamer who does a daily quest and gets an average of 60 gold a day cannot be competitive in Hearthstone unless they have nothing to do, free wifi, and insomnia. But a person who can hit the gold cap can be competitive without all that? 50-60 more gold a day is all it takes to make the difference between someone who has to play all day every day, and someone who doesn't?

Being 'competitive' in Hearthstone is always used by the F2P Whiners as some sort of Jungian archetype, or Elysium precedent against which all things are measured. However, "being competitive" is such a squishy, malleable, subjective term that it is virtually useless to use in any concrete discussion. One person defines being competitive as having "all or nearly all" of the entire collection. Another person defines it has having just one decent deck. Another person defines it just as having enough cards to start playing. There's no consistency to it. As such, I tend to throw any argument that cites "being competitive" into the dung heap because such a term might as well be talking about Santa Claus.
09/24/2017 08:02 PMPosted by First123
Huh? Since when did being in a card game forum stop you from being an informed adult?

Hey, I'm happy for you that you want to appear as an "informed adult" by putting forth and quote all the unrelated bs posts about a thread on the f2p issues in Hearthstone.

Reddit is in another direction.

With that said, I think the f2p issue hasn't gotten to the point of unbearable given Blizzard has done some, though small, things to help players finish daily quests, etc.

Honestly, any f2p shouldn't expect to hit legend or go into top 10% right away compared to those with similar skills that optimize their decks immediately via buying packs following the expansions.
09/24/2017 08:24 PMPosted by TheRiddler
One person defines being competitive as having "all or nearly all" of the entire collection.

To be honest, that shouldn't even be a definition.

Who in the world are you competing against when you are collecting? It's not like Team 5 has implemented some sort of world's first achievement like in WoW.

People need to differentiate between collectors and competitors.
To be honest, that shouldn't even be a definition.


I completely agree. And yet, there are those who hold that as the standard. What can you do? They're complaining about Apples when talking about Oranges.

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