Tyrande, oh where oh where

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Gimme my opportunity to add her to my collection plx.
Also, semantics. You don't have to use the words "promise" for it to be a promise. We could just as easily talking about the "year of the mammoth 'expectations'" or whatever goal post moving exercise works here...but it doesn't change the fact that expectations were set by that article, they were not delivered (without so much as a "sorry" from Team 5 directly, I might add).


07/20/2018 12:22 PMPosted by Jesse Hill
I put "should" in bold to emphasize that a comment like this can lend towards the possibility of it not happening. Semantics to some I realize, but there are reasons this type of wording is used. It is because, things can happen, and it can lead to these programs not going through.


I really hope the new position Team 5 is taking is that the playerbase shouldn't have nearly two years worth of frustration on this because they didn't actually make any kind of promise or set any kind of expectations...


07/20/2018 12:22 PMPosted by Jesse Hill
Also, I fully understand that if we lead to the belief that the skin would be made available during the Year of the Mammoth, that when it ended up not being so, we should have communicated that. I have mentioned multiple times that our communication needs to be better and we are improving on that as we go.


What about those?


"We’re also hoping to bring back some of the ones we’ve featured in the past to give a wider audience a chance to get them...We’ve always got something in the works, but for various reasons it does take time to get them out into the game."


My point on this is, their absence here when they make it a point to show up elsewhere (quite often), especially when they have access to and can provide information that you do not (and are not authorized to release) is not acting in good faith.


There are different roles and degrees to the team. While someone may be able to step in and discuss balance, because they are a balance designer, that does not mean they would be in a position to comment fully on other topics.

07/20/2018 02:43 PMPosted by Bobafett345
Well, that goes full circle back to what myself and others said earlier about semantics


I understand. That is why I mention it in the following paragraph.

07/20/2018 02:43 PMPosted by Bobafett345
Do we really want to get to the place where we have to start parsing out every single word we read or a lead says like we do with our politicians and we have to ask it "depends on what our definition of 'is" is?"


Not at all, but there also shouldn't be a point of "well you said this, so it means that".

especially when they have access to and can provide information that you do not


As mentioned, when there are updates to provide, we will do so.
There are different roles and degrees to the team. While someone may be able to step in and discuss balance, because they are a balance designer, that does not mean they would be in a position to comment fully on other topics.


Ok, but that's a bit like saying myself and others were asking the janitor to come in here and comment too. Clearly that wasn't it. We're using "Team 5" because we don't have a complete list of everyone involved in the decision making process, their names, contact information, etc.

I also don't think you're going to provide that for everyone here.

So, rather than get into the weeds on this...my point was (and is) that when the Hearthstone Team wants to say something, they have (insert person, department, individual, pet, mascot, etc) say something.

Now then, circling back to what I said before:

My point on this is, their absence here when they make it a point to show up elsewhere (quite often), especially when they have access to and can provide information that you do not (and are not authorized to release) is not acting in good faith.


07/20/2018 07:40 PMPosted by Jesse Hill
Not at all, but there also shouldn't be a point of "well you said this, so it means that".


Ok. So going back to my earlier point: The main page says play Hearthstone "now." Can we clarify exactly what the duration of "now" means, as it may impact future purchasing decisions? I don't want to pre-purchase the next release only to find out that I'm only going to play it for a couple of days...

:|

When we can't take the leads seriously when they post about something as simple as bringing back items to the game (some of which are completely under actiblizz's control), everything and I do mean everything is up for grabs.

"We’re also hoping to bring back some of the ones we’ve featured in the past to give a wider audience a chance to get them...We’ve always got something in the works, but for various reasons it does take time to get them out into the game."


How does something "take some time" for the items that actiblizz has 100% control over (e.g. the card back and other items that don't involve 3rd party promotions)?

These would be as simple as flipping a switch.

If this were a print card game sure, what you're saying would have some traction, but this is a purely digital product. For everything that you have no 3rd party issues with, someone could put them in the game as soon as the person authorized to make those decisions did so.

I've mentioned more than once the problems with putting this on 3rd party issues. More than once its been alluded to, but not said outright. If it were an NDA issue, a statement would have been issued by now (as it is industry standard practice) to say "we cannot comment about issue X because of an NDA."

The Tyrande situation takes the secrecy to a whole other level by not even disclosing there's an NDA. Which is the level of secrecy reserved for next gen console work, high end corporate mergers, and classified government projects.

Does the Tyrande Hearthstone skin, a nearly two year old twitch promotion fall under any of three categories? No, but you can't go right out and blame the people you are working with if they aren't really at fault, because it would flood their phone and e-mail centers with a lot of angry contacts demanding they stop holding up Tyrande.

As it currently stands, there's nothing directly blaming twitch/amazon for the Tyrande holdup, and if anyone reaching out from twitch/amazon to actiblizz can be told that the angry customers simply misunderstood what the CM said...or they throw the CM under the bus if twitch/amazon presses the issue.

It's also standard business practice, and another reason Team 5 would insulate itself from discussing the issue directly here. They can also claim deniability, that their message was not transmitted properly. Then issue something that "clarifies" what their "actual" position is.

They have actually stated that Tyrande will come back, after failing to meet their original deadline of returning her and the other items not currently in the game during the year of the mammoth. The problem so far both in how they originally handled the promotion and in their actions since is the massive gap in their stated values vs how they conduct themselves in their day to day business.
07/20/2018 10:36 PMPosted by Bobafett345
The problem so far both in how they originally handled the promotion and in their actions since is the massive gap in their stated values vs how they conduct themselves in their day to day business.


I think this is a key issue in the case, and a point why is quite problematic that HS Team chose to remain silent, or say anything other than empty phrases (no concrete information was published).
07/20/2018 11:32 PMPosted by Tillael
07/20/2018 10:36 PMPosted by Bobafett345
The problem so far both in how they originally handled the promotion and in their actions since is the massive gap in their stated values vs how they conduct themselves in their day to day business.


I think this is a key issue in the case, and a point why is quite problematic that HS Team chose to remain silent, or say anything other than empty phrases (no concrete information was published).


Especially now that it seems the official position is moving towards/has become "We never actually promised to bring back Tyrande in the year of the mammoth."

While simultaneously claiming what happened there as a "major growth point." Sorry, you can't claim it's a strong growth moment when you:

1. Make a commitment to never commit to firm deadlines ever again.

2. Most importantly, seem to take the position you never actually committed to anything in the first place

Said this before, but it bears repeating:

No. It is an opportunity for growth, but actual growth requires concrete and definite change to take place. Actions speak louder than words. A commitment to never committing to firm dates again (especially when there wasn't a firm date in the first place) isn't growth, it's regression. If Team 5 had re-released even the 100% to actiblizz items during the year of the mammoth (a partial fulfillment of the promise), you could call that a "growth point" but not a "major" one. For this to be a "major growth point" it would require someone, multiple someones, or Team 5 to acknowledge:

-they dropped the ball with Tyrande the first time around (when they knowingly engaged in a promotion that would discriminate against most of their worldwide playerbase)

-they are truly aware of how this goes against their stated values of inclusivity and Hearthstone being a game for all players, worldwide and sorry for choosing a promotional partner over most of their worldwide playerbase

-they are actively working to make sure future promotions (especially those with hero skins) are available to all regions, or as many regions as possible

-are working on being more open and transparent in their future agreements, or whatever dealings are that are currently preventing them from discussing ANYTHING related to why they are not keeping their promise re-release Tyrande worldwide, or why they won't discuss those reasons

That, off the top of my head, would count as "major growth" (I'm sure there are more).


That's why so many recovery programs have the first step as "admit you have a problem." So far, there has yet to be a true admission of this here. Especially with the attempt to walk back the year of the mammoth promise.

I hate to sound alarmist, but the more I think about this, the only reason you would want to walk back your old promise is that you are gearing up to walk back your more recent one.

I honestly can't think of any other reason at this point why they would want to try and retcon something that has been established for the better part of two years now.

It's not like we dug up what Mr. Woo said from a vacuum and started talking about it recently. We've been talking about it in every Tyrande thread. In one of the old ones, even a blue had linked it as well. If that thread was still here, I would link that post. But it's really troubling that an effort is being made now to downplay/minimize/eliminate the significance of the year of the mammoth promise at this point when it was a matter of settled record.
I have a feeling that the Team 5 are a small group of people which completely overwhelmed by the Hearthstone. They’ve failed and they simply can’t admit that and do something. That’s just my opinion based on how long it takes to even notice the latest iOS and Android bugs with the infinite downloading, crashes and blank cards. Do you have at least one iOS tester in your team? Well, that’s an off-topic, my apologies.

I can’t believe that we’re still discussing bringing the Tyrande back after the 2(?) years
07/21/2018 04:28 AMPosted by Sinister
I have a feeling that the Team 5 are a small group of people which completely overwhelmed by the Hearthstone. They’ve failed and they simply can’t admit that and do something. That’s just my opinion based on how long it takes to even notice the latest iOS and Android bugs with the infinite downloading, crashes and blank cards. Do you have at least one iOS tester in your team? Well, that’s an off-topic, my apologies.

I can’t believe that we’re still discussing bringing the Tyrande back after the 2(?) years


Hi Sinister,
I had similar problems with my iOS. Best way to solve this is:
- log off on your mobile phone from Hearthstone.
- Delete the game.
- Re-download the game.
- Start the Game
- Wait for the welcome screen (the one showing you to create account or log-in), but DO NOT log-in. You will notice in a right corner (close to battery status) that there is download pending. Leave it and wait till it will go to 100% then wait a bit more (just in case).
- Restart the game.
- Log in
- Enjoy playing Hearthstone on your iPhone.

This solution worked for me. If you will not wait for download you will have blank cards and crashes because the game is not fully download and it cannot download itself after you log-in for the first time.

Hope this helps!

Regards,
Fur

@Edit: Sorry for offtopic, just wanted to help! Blizz, bring Tyrande and Khagdar back for us! ;)
07/21/2018 04:28 AMPosted by Sinister
’t believe that we’re still discussing bringing the Tyrande back after the 2(?) years


In one year from now we will be discussing about bringing back mecha jaraxxus along Tyrande and Khadgar.
07/21/2018 10:42 AMPosted by Savyx
07/21/2018 04:28 AMPosted by Sinister
’t believe that we’re still discussing bringing the Tyrande back after the 2(?) years


In one year from now we will be discussing about bringing back mecha jaraxxus along Tyrande and Khadgar.


I think this is a different type of a story and Mecha Jaraxxus won't return. Bundle is available for everybody so we can at least say that he is obtainable which we couldn't have said in the past about Tyrande.
There is no “effort to downplay/minimize/eliminate” anything. I was looking to provide some context and clarification to what was being misquoted and misunderstood. However, it feels there is just more a desire to argue than discuss points, as the same explanations keep getting repeated.

I apologize if you don’t like the answers that have been provided, but regardless of how they are reworded or inturpeted, this is where we are at.

As stated, Tyrande will be returning. We have no date to currently provide. As information becomes available, we will get it out to the community.

Thank you.
07/22/2018 12:32 AMPosted by Jesse Hill
However, it feels there is just more a desire to argue than discuss points, as the same explanations keep getting repeated.


Respectfully, that's not the case.

For the record, I did not take something that was a matter of settled history (the year of the mammoth promise) and upend it by trying to walk it back nearly two years later.

When something like that happens this late in the game, it looks highly suspect and naturally people will ask why.

Then turning that back on those who do when it's point out how highly suspect it is only compounds the issue.

Respectfully, it would have been better not to have brought it up it all then to have brought it up then turn it back on those who pointed out the problems and implications of doing so at this point.

07/22/2018 12:32 AMPosted by Jesse Hill
I apologize if you don’t like the answers that have been provided, but regardless of how they are reworded or inturpeted, this is where we are at.


I believe you meant to say "don't like the answers." Because a great number of us, myself included, don't. It's incredibly frustrating when the leads of a multibillion dollar company have been as cryptic and evasive on a subject as simple as a two year old hero skin promotion.

Other companies in similar situations have provided much better communication, much more transparency, and if we're being completely honest, a much quicker "mea culpa" response when it comes to making things right in a situation like this. This isn't actiblizz's first rodeo, but they way they handle it and they way it continues to be handled does not reflect either their stated values or that they are a multibillion dollar company with a fully staffed professionally backed team of people to assist them at their call should they need it in situations like these.
Jesse just stop responding to him. He just wants attention and to fight. He obviously isn’t reading what you put. And when he does manage to quote something (properly instead of paraphrasing how he wants to understand it to support his arguing), he tries to twist it around to mean something else so he can keep arguing and feeling like he has a clue.

For those of us who understand that no matter how many times you misquote or change something said, that it doesn’t make it true, we appreciate you taking the time to provide what context you can and giving updates. Thank you and good luck dealing with all this.
07/22/2018 12:32 AMPosted by Jesse Hill
There is no “effort to downplay/minimize/eliminate” anything. I was looking to provide some context and clarification to what was being misquoted and misunderstood. However, it feels there is just more a desire to argue than discuss points, as the same explanations keep getting repeated.

I apologize if you don’t like the answers that have been provided, but regardless of how they are reworded or inturpeted, this is where we are at.

As stated, Tyrande will be returning. We have no date to currently provide. As information becomes available, we will get it out to the community.

Thank you.


Where is my post Jesse? Why is deleted? Should I post it again? Looks like we cannot have conversation here...
im not interested in tyrande and i personally think its just an unimportant skin

but i support your thread because i have respect for your perseverance
07/22/2018 12:49 PMPosted by Shizo
Where is my post Jesse? Why is deleted? Should I post it again? Looks like we cannot have conversation here...


What was your post about?

It's also interesting the trolls are back with their voting manipulation (they've hit at least every post on this page). And now are bold enough to post direct attack posts that remain up for the better part of a day, despite being reported. I thought this was taken care of.

There was one other possibility for recent events that I hadn't considered until the trolls popped back up, that I hope I'm wrong about.

I'll keep this one to myself for now, and see how things play out.

Here's hoping things return to normal.
As a beginning of better communication, I have an advice. Change the description of Tyrande in the Collection Tab. Instead of " Obtained from a special promotion" description

The text could be something like these in all regions/countries, where she was not available:

"The hero skin have never been available in your country." or

"Your country was excluded to obtain the skin" or

"Obtained from a special promotion only in our privileged countries." or

As a better communication, this could express that most players have the right only to see Tyrande in the Collectuon Tab, but do not deceive them, that the skin have been available to them.
This thread got passive agressive very quickly. I ask you all to calm down a little bit, gentelmen.
07/23/2018 08:08 AMPosted by HAAAAX
This thread got passive agressive very quickly. I ask you all to calm down a little bit, gentelmen.


It's been up for a long time, people are resorting to "Demand Tyrande back" and it's hard to blame them.

I would rather play the true passive aggressive card [wink wink] and say "Take your time, Team 5, we're obviously a patient crowd."

But I also want to play Tyrande after two years as well so who knows.

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