Tyrande, oh where oh where

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@Arukayos
Those personal attacks were aimed at you not giving any counter argument or any explanation on what I said but resorting only to 'not our problem'. That's basically shutting your ears and only demanding what you want, not considering the circumstances/situation.

And seems to me, you're still not getting what I'm saying. Let me just put it this way. Did EU got its Tyrande promotion or not? No matter how you want to put conditions on it or not, the answer is, yes, EU got its promotion. World even includes NA. But you don't expect NA to get another promotion, do you? Don't know how other region works in terms of Blizz service, but I'd say Africa, Middle East, India, South America, those region have more chance for the promotion than EU, the worldwide part that never had its chance.

So you still plan to not answer anything I said? World including NA, SEA, Korea(yes, it looks like both of you guys mistook this, but Korea had its Tyrande promotion already), China, and yes, EU had its Tyrande promotion. I kept pointed out how if neglected part of EU players had a seperate region group just like how SEA has, it would be much simple to just give them the promotion chance. You ignored my point, failed to face what situation EU players are in, and failed to suggest any alternative path you think might be suitable.
1+1 equals 2. Just link one situation to another. That's what I was doing; promotional item=special, EU had its promotion, World had its promotion, no extra promotion for region who already had it. Get the picture? Of course, this is just my interpretation. But seems more plausible than Blizz hiding from these so called demand of some EU players. It's as if these some people can't/don't know how to take 'no' for an answer.
Could you provide a link about when and how Tyrande was available in EU, please?

I mean in the whole EU region. I could assure you that the huge majority of EU countries and players (include my country) were excluded from the original promotion and no second chance was given. Europe has around 50 countries, and only 7 was included in the promotion...
https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/blog/20303032/

Could you provide a link about when and how Tyrande was available in Korea, please?

SEA region had a promotion, but in fact even that promotion were valid only a part of the SEA region. Korea is not in South-East Asia, just check a world map.

Several other regions do not have even a partly promotion of Tyrande, like Africa, Latin-America, Pacific, etc.

North-America is the only region, where Tyrande had a whole coverage promotion. Of course because Blizzard is an American company, this was the only region, where they do not risk rage waves due to pure discriminations (in 2016 till now).
@Tillael
More than half your post was either stating the obvious or repeating what I said, but conveniently not going over what needed to be address of what I said.

I'm sure I don't have to link you when Tyrande was available on EU, yes, the only 7 part of EU being available, but available nontheless. As for Korea, you do realize the interview in that source link page was last year's interview, when Year of the Mammoth was just about to start, right? Just asking, as it seems both you guys are misunderstanding that part. Anyway, this is not the whole source that Tyrande promotion was available in Korea, but here's one,
https://twitter.com/ywoo_dev/status/855585700539846656
The 4th tweet on the page by Woo himself. And yes, this too was last year's tweet in case you noticed. You should've realized this earlier, as I already mentioned Korea having Tyrande promotion in my previous posts, some time between SEA promotion and China one. Yes, LAST YEAR. I thought that was obvious until you two clearly making remark that suggests otherwise.

Yes, SEA had its promotion, yes, it was only available on certain part of SEA, just like, oh, EU (never did I link Korea's promotion to SEA one btw. I always wrote and mentioned it separately).
And it was I who mentioned Africa, South America, and all that. Don't try to use it as your argument. It was I who pointed out how certain region didn't get the promotion when the so called promise was worldwide because of technical difficulties or whatever crap. It was me pointing out how ridiculous some EU players' claim is.

North America having the whole coverage in promotion is because of how Amazon/Twitch itself is a US/North America company. It has nothing to do with discrimination (seriously, what's with the word choice? what is this, the 1960s?).

You seem to not get how Blizz system works (again, this is just by interpretation of what I observed), but what if I say China region too got the whole coverage in Tyrande promotion in responds to your NA getting the whole coverage? Don't think in regards of 'oh, but China is one country' and all that. Think of it in terms of Blizz separated region, or whatever the name. China has a whole server thingy by themselves, prolly because of huge population it has but also because of some whacked regulation. I do know they have their own in HS and WoW, frankly care less about other games, but you get my point. Now expand your thinking in regards of that info. I know there is one somewhere in SEA (prolly Singapore, judging by they have something similar in HotS). Expand more with considering what I said before; separating EU players that live in Germany/France/UK, etc with the ones that don't, or Tyrande promotion being granted by specific Blizz regions (I think you somewhat guessed it judging by one of your peevious post, but yes, because of how accounts are managed in terms of region and whatnot).
So discrimination? I would say, hardly.

My point? Rest of the EU players won't get their Tyrande like other regions had their promotion (as EU region already had it). It will be some other method if any, but currently with no plans. Yes, this means, no(for now). That was Blizz's response. Regular reminder from time to time should be good, but often times it becomes more than just a reminder.
Thank you, my mistake that miss the Korean promotion. I spent some time until I find how Tyrande was available in Korea, but it seemed to be happened. Vote and get Tyrande... similar to "like" HS in China as an exchange. (I used translator, so if I misunderstand the way, I apologyse)
https://playhearthstone.com/ko-kr/blog/20567506?utm_source=desktopweb-news&utm_campaign=web-eu-desktopwebnews&utm_medium=internal&utm_content=20562512

However discriminate the majority of EU countries and players and many other regions, and exclude them the possibility to get a content, what others had a (free) chance is discrimination. 100% based on residence as a separation method, no pre-promotion or post-promotion feedback conclude in action or correction in these excluded countries.
Discrimination is maybe the word, what US people dislike to hear/read. Sorry, if it is not political correct enough to discribe this sitation, when the companies separate people from each other, and give priviledge access to some of them (NA and 7 other countries), while exclude others and ignore the problem (at least do no action to solve or compensate).
Location restrictions in a global service content (at least in EU) is actually discrimination. May sounds harsh, but facts are facts.
I didn't want to be a member of twitch prime, I hate the platform and it's constantly idiotic, racist chat. Tyrande is the only in game skin I have cared about in hearthstone, Blizzard should just sell it, or make it unlockable by other in game means. Not having Tyrande actually annoys me, Blizzard.
@Tillael
I don't have particular problem with the word discrimination, I just don't think the word is applicable on this case. It was just by happenchance. I don't know if Tyrande was the first Twitch-Blizzard promotion, but Blizz decided to do it, problem was raised when people who weren't part of it wanted Tyrande skin more than other. Other promo like card back, gold pack(is there more?), people didn't raise problem when it's the same Twitch-Blizzard deal.

It's discrimination if Blizz intentionally left out certain part of EU on the promo. That's not the case. It was originally a Twitch-Blizz promo. Different promo methods were used on different regions(Blizz region separation) because the deal wasn't available completely. EU region were just left out as it already had one. Unfortune for them that their promo method was by Twitch.
Note, I've been continuously saying, or tried to say, as EU 'region'. That was deliebrate to emphasize how region differs and how it works. In Blizz system, you're not, say, a player from Poland. You're EU player. This imo is where the problem persists.
Wonder how US players would feel if Tyrande have been available only 7 states in US (pick random), and exclude the other 44 states... Because that happened in EU as a "region". Difficult to believe this was not intentional, because I have not read that Blizzard fired the whole marketing team, because of "this mistake".
03/25/2018 12:19 PMPosted by Tillael
Wonder how US players would feel if Tyrande have been available only 7 states in US (pick random), and exclude the other 44 states... Because that happened in EU as a "region". Difficult to believe this was not intentional, because I have not read that Blizzard fired the whole marketing team, because of "this mistake".
Countries for the promo weren't random picked. It was a promo regarding Twitch. NA and 7 EU countries were happen to be eligible only because of Amazon only being available in those countries.
Marketing team probably weren't fired becauae they didn't make any mistake. As I said, it was a Twitch promo, nothing more. Some EU players are being sensitive about it because that particular time the promo reward was a skin, unlike other promo ones they care less about.

Consider what came first and what came last. It's not, 'oh, hey. let's have a promo that only includes NA and 7 countries in EU', it's 'let's do a promo with Twitch (happens to only include NA and 7 EU)'.

And some thing that is constantly getting left out is, in order for you get the promo reward, you need to be subbed to Twitch prime, is it not? Forget the fact that people try to exploit the 1month free Twitch prime service to get one reward for free. This whole promo is a business deal. Twitch makes money from more Twtich prime subs, Blizz gives several perks as a reward for it (don't know how much or what Twitch gave to Blizz).
I already pointed out how some EU players are hanging over Tyrande skin while ignoring the others. Twitch-Blizz deal is still on-going. Don't know how often, don't know what, but promo reward is still being given out. EU players don't talk about it though, do they? It means they have no problem with Twitch-Blizz deal (it being 'money for additional Twitch service and Blizz in-game stuff' to begin with). It was only about Tyrande. Regarding other region with Tyrande promotion, I think I already talked about plenty.

Hate to repeat what the other guy said (it being about business deal and all), but come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised if other part of EU might not get that Tyrande skin until that Twitch-Blizz deal ends.
03/24/2018 02:02 AMPosted by sky3union
You do know that Producer Yong Woo's statement was aimed at Korean audience, right?


Hmm, interestingly enough...The article's title is:

"Q&A session with Producer Yong Woo about the past, present and future of Hearthstone"

Not "future of Hearthstone in Korea ONLY."

Most of the Q&A dealt with issues related to Heathstone on a worldwide level, so your attempt to limit it to korea only do not work. It would be like trying to apply a NA Q&A to the game in NA and claim it didn't apply to anywhere else in the world. Clearly, that is not the case.

03/24/2018 02:02 AMPosted by sky3union
Those region already had their promotion. Yes, even Europe.


Tillael did an excellent job pointing out the numerous flaws in your argument, but there's one gaping hole in your point (basically Tyrande won't be coming back for anywhere that already had it). Aside from the fact that even jesse himself here has said (paraphrasing) Tyrande is going to come back, it's not a question of when, not if. There is one more key point from the interview you seem to have missed. Let highlight what Mr. Woo said:

Will the past promotional heroes and card backs be available again?

We are looking for ways to give players another chance to get the promotional heroes and card backs. For example, Tyrande Whisperwind was not available worldwide, so we'd like to give another chance for players to get her again. So, we have a good news - we should be ready to bring some of them back in the Year of the Mammoth.


You see, if it was merely about getting it to places where it was never released in the first place "again" would not have been used. "Again" and "another chance" clearly indicate not only that those who were not able to participate due to being intentionally being locked out the first time because of region issues, but that everyone who missed out will get another shot. You don't use second chance language just for people who never got a first chance, you're using it to include

(::in best Gary Oldman voice::)

EVERYONE!

03/25/2018 03:14 AMPosted by sky3union
Those personal attacks were aimed at you


jesse made it quite clear what would happen to those who made personal attacks on this thread. Let's see if that holds true for those make personal attacks in defense of actiblizz. Take the time to report sky, direct the reports to jesse's comments in this thread, and move on.
@Bobafett345
First off, you're trying way too hard to make a point through semantic here. Second, from the very beginning of my post, even before Jesse respond, or at least before I saw the whole detail of it, I've been saying there is a chance for Tyrande promotion to return some time. The details later posted by Jesse was that, currently no plan, but they're looking for another chance.

And what's with the selectice argument? (if there is such word) I re-pointed out the flaws in Tillael's argument regarding EU already having its promotion. You again went in arguing over semantic, read above of what I said. I fully acknowledge the might-be-chance for Tyrande to return, seems like you don't. As I said multiple times, it's 'currently no plan' 'for now'. Understand that part.

Next semantic argument, I also went over. It was basically Tillael's and other's argument saying the promise were made to worldwide, which in their understanding, should've included left over part of EU. Yes, the argument is all up there, though it might be scattered through several post little by little.

Next one, I guess you don't ever think about what italicized word means. It was me using the exact wordings of Arukayos. I guess you took it as me admitting 'ha, I personally attacked you', those kind of stuff. Maybe you should've read what Arukayos wrote in respond. I can point out couple of key words he used that can also interpretate as a personal attacks. In your standard/definition that is. I don't care about it, apparently you do. By all means, report me all you want. If Mod deems my post as offensive, I'll take full responsibility for it. Doesn't change the fact that you practically skipped all my argument, revert back to the same semantic argument from a page before.
03/26/2018 01:29 AMPosted by sky3union
First off, you're trying way too hard to make a point through semantic here.


Not at all. Just a plain reading of what was said. You're the one trying to limit it to a specific place and time when the wording is clearly more inclusive and broad in scope. The burden is on you to prove it is otherwise, not me.

03/26/2018 01:29 AMPosted by sky3union
Next one, I guess you don't ever think about what italicized word means.


Even a sarcastic confession is still a confession. I'm also going off what you said in your previous posts. It's not the first, nor will it probably be the last time you've made personal attacks and name calling against people on these forums. I just thought you would have toned it down (or not done it at all) on a thread where a mod specifically said not to do engage in this kind of behavior.

As to your comments about if the mods take issue with it...nearly echoes my previous point about if they will take action about it or not still stands.
Bobafett345:
Not at all. Just a plain reading of what was said. You're the one trying to try and try and limit it to a specific place and time when the wording is clearly more inclusive. The burden is on you to prove it is otherwise, not me.
I already went over it, plenty of time. You're trying to take worldwide literally so as to include the leftover part of EU in anyways, but what you really meant is a second promotion on EU, not really having worldwide in your mind. I already mentioned South America, Africa, and Middle East (don't know if they got the promotion or not) as a more likely and eligible candidate if the worldwide is to be taken literally, not EU where it already had a promotion.

Using only semantic as your argument is only showing that you have no argument to say in other part. I went over region restrictions and other stuff of why I think EU is less likely to get the promotion anytime soon. How about go over that if you really want a discussion. Or, is it that you don't want a discussion but want to just troll? More about that later.
Even a sarcastic confession is still a confession. I'm also going off what you said in your previous posts. It's not the first, nor will it probably be the last time you've made personal attacks and name calling against people on these forums. I just thought you would have toned it down (or not done it at all) on a thread where a mod specifically said not to do engage in this kind of behavior.
You seem to deliberately ignore every other thing I said. On the same paragraph I supposedly confessed, I pointed out what part of Arukayos's behavior I was referring to: 'shutting your ears...' part. Not to mention in Arukayos's post he did his name calling of his own.

And no, I didn't confess if that's what you think. It's me using the exact word Arukayos used, saying 'if that's how you took it'. I don't consider what I did name calling. It's called analogy. Yes, I use it time to time in this forum. To who? To use your method of 'not-consider-anything-else-but-label', to trolls, that's who I sometimes use analogy to.
So back to Arukayos, and you for that matter. Both of you guys focus more on shutting your ears and go 'no, this...but, this...nonono, this' instead of focusing on the argument/discussion. If I were to be namecalling, you guys are trolling. Check every other time I used analogy. Maybe if you empathize/identify with them(the trolls), yes, I can see how/why you would see me using analogy as namecalling.
As to your comments about if the mods take issue with it...nearly echoes my previous point about if they will take action about it or not still stands.
That's like saying 'if something doesn't go as I want, that person is lying/it's a conspiracy'. I can see where this is coming from as it kinda mirrors your standpoint/attitude in this whole Tyrande business. If I get suspended, good for you. But if not, how about Mod didn't consider what I said namecalling, instead of 'sky3union name-called, but didn't get suspended because Mod doesn't keep their word or they're all into it'? World isn't black and white, front and back side of a coin, like you think, you know.

So any other thing you have to say, other than repeating semantics of course (which I already went over again btw)?
03/26/2018 04:17 AMPosted by sky3union
You're trying to take worldwide literally


Let's turn to a neutral, third party, to be the arbiter as to what "worldwide" means.

Definition of worldwide

: extended throughout or involving the entire world


Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worldwide

Well, it looks like mine is the correct definition of the word. Again, no semantics...just a plain reading of what's there. The burden is on you to prove there is some other definition or meaning of "worldwide" other than the standard usage, not me.

03/26/2018 04:17 AMPosted by sky3union
You seem to deliberately ignore every other thing I said.


No, I clearly also said:

03/26/2018 02:25 AMPosted by Bobafett345
I'm also going off what you said in your previous posts. It's not the first, nor will it probably be the last time you've made personal attacks and name calling against people on these forums. I just thought you would have toned it down (or not done it at all) on a thread where a mod specifically said not to do engage in this kind of behavior.


Did the other poster "go there?" That's for the mods to decide. However, I'm not addressing them at the moment, I was and am responding to your posts that were addressed to me.

As for the rest, there's no "conspiracy"... it's a statement based on multiple observations of past behavior. There's a track record of seeing you make these kinds of posts (that are a clear violation of CoC), yet they are not addressed. This is evident by the fact that your posting is going on uninterrupted. The fact that you are bold enough to continue such behavior in a thread where a community manager has clearly stated such behavior is nor acceptable suggests that A) You haven't been warned or had any actions done about such behaviors in the past; OR B) You have and simply don't care.
@Bobafett345
lol. I could basically copy paste my previois post and it will still hold.

IF worldwide is to be taken literally, it's less likely EU to be included. Why? Because EU 'region' already had its promotion, just like NA 'region' had its. When taken literally, South American, Africa, etc. will likely to be next, the worldwide. But as I already implied, those region not having Blizz specified region (Blizz branch or studio near that region), I also find it unlikely they will get the promotion. Not in Year of thr Mammoth at least.

See what I mean? I clearly said this before several times. 'You seem to deliberately ignore..', 'you trolling...', sounds way more convincing now, does it? What am I to say in all this? I seriously have to doubt your understanding skill when everything points that way. So you trolling or you just lack understandind skill? This almost does seem like a black and white in this case.
(you may again call this namecalling, but check how many times I have to repeat myself, dragging the thread longer and longer because you just fail to understanding anything I said)

Last paragraph....wondering if I should repeat myself again or not. Just read the bottom part of my previous post again.
You just seem to fail to understand that your standard is not the 'one and all' standard. Yes, I did notice your tendency in this before, which is one of the reason why I first replied to your post in the past. But wow....just wow.
There are some reasonable people in this thread, majority of them are not. It's one of the problem with this thread.
03/26/2018 05:05 AMPosted by sky3union
lol. I could basically copy paste my previois post and it will still hold.


Not really. Repeating the same inaccuracies doesn't make them any more true. Again, the burden of proof is on you to prove:

"Worldwide" means something other than the common dictionary definition.

Why Mr. Woo went out of his way multiple times to say "again" and "another chance" if he was referring only to countries that didn't get a shot at the promotion the first time around. Again, the burden is on you to prove he meant first timers only, despite using language to the contrary multiple times in his answer.

As for the rest, you are literally trying to defend the indefensible...and failing spectacularly. The CoC can be found at:

http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct

Those aren't "my standards" they are the standards for these forums. You should probably read them again...and jesse's post on this thread that I have referred to multiple times now, and you have quoted me talking about more than once. So you cannot claim ignorance about it.
@Bobafett345
You fail to seem to understand that what Woo meant by worldwide is none of my concern. I talked about it in both ways. Read again, then you'd realize that. It was never the center of my argument like it is with yours. But he said, worldwide, so worldwide it is. I want worldwide promotion Tyrande, worldwide worldwide, this is basically every argument you're having with Tyrande. None, literally none of other thing I said was ever mentioned by you.
This is one part of your post. No constructive argument, just tantrum.

Second part of your post, which again is you repeating the same thing over again.
What part of 'I don't consider that namecalling', 'analogy', 'if you empathize/identify with them(trolls)..', 'your standard not being one-and-all', don't you understand?
I was namecalling according to you(your standard), or more correctly, in Arukayos's word, the guy in the receiving end. Me using the word he used seem to have triggered your obsession with words/semantic, and conclude that I was namecalling. No, I don't consider I namecalled. As I said, only the trolls(the people in the receiving end, or people who empathize/identify with them) seems to feel like I was namecalling (when I namecall, it will be blatantly straightforward). The order goes like this, someone trolls, first I go with the logical reasoning approach, them being trolls lack logical reasoning in their argument, me use analogy on their behavior (that's like, it's as if, etc.), trolls take it personally and consider that namecalling. As most trolls are ego-centric, it's not at all surprising that they took it personally, or can't think wider in their perception.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure you'll say the same thing, again. So guess I'm done with this thread for now, at least with you. I've been repeating myself (for obvious reason) so much, my point is scattered across this thread. Nothing more needs to be said I believe.
I really do hope the left out EU players get their Tyrande, but nontheless this thread should remain amusing (again, for obvious reason).
03/26/2018 06:28 AMPosted by sky3union

I really do hope the left out EU players get their Tyrande, but nontheless this thread should remain amusing (again, for obvious reason).


Me too, feels sad that now fair players should regret their fair behavior, because Blizzard moderators clearly propagate everyone "play fair, play nice" (in other words) in forums, promised another solution, and 15 months later only cheaters have Tyrande in my country.

I had Twitch Prime in 2017, become accessible after the Tyrande promotion period. BUT I have not live in priviledged NA countries and the rest 7 other countries somehow involved.

I bought 40 deck over my HS history. BUT I do not live in those few SEA countries, where they allow this method.

I could "like" HS in any social media, including WeChat, BUT I do not live in China.

I chosen champions in competitions several time. BUT I do not live in South Korea.

So all in all, I do not get why Blizzard treat me and millions of other players, a second rank (or rankless) customer, who have to see Tyrande any time check in OUR collection tab. In this circumstances face Tyrande in games is not a kindly reminder "cheaters won, AND rewarded". Lesson learnt about "play fair" and its importance, nonetheless.
03/25/2018 03:14 AMPosted by sky3union
World even includes NA. But you don't expect NA to get another promotion, do you? Don't know how other region works in terms of Blizz service, but I'd say Africa, Middle East, India, South America, those region have more chance for the promotion than EU, the worldwide part that never had its chance.


I don't expect anything other than Blizzard intending to keep true to their public statement, which was (paraphrasing here, not gonna link it for the 16th time in this thread)

"We intend to bring back Tyrande worldwide for the players who missed it, in the Year of the Mammoth"

See, unlike you, I don't claim to work for Blizzard and know their internal workings. I won't comment on why they haven't released it not because I don't want to understand the reason - but because they have made no public statements regarding such reasons and I don't like to operate on assumptions.

You seem to want to spend t-infinity hours postulating the reasons why they would or wouldn't release Tyrande. That's great if you don't have better things to do with your time. I, on the other hand, like many others, will just go purely by Blizzard's statement.

There's a reason nobody in this thread is agreeing with you, by the way. And it isn't because everybody else is wrong!!! like you seem to believe.

PS: TL;DR

03/25/2018 03:14 AMPosted by sky3union
Of course, this is just my interpretation.


Nobody cares about your interpretation. We only care about the statement Blizzard makes. If their explanation is the same as yours, they should come right out and say it. Otherwise you're just talking bs while acting like it's official.

03/25/2018 03:14 AMPosted by sky3union
But seems more plausible than Blizz hiding from these so called demand of some EU players.


Nobody said this. Are you just strawmanning to make people look bad? Blizzard is keeping this thread open and actively responding - we respect that and don't believe that they're hiding - we are just pointing out that no clear answers have been given so far.
03/26/2018 06:28 AMPosted by sky3union
You fail to seem to understand that what Woo meant by worldwide is none of my concern.


You brought it up, and seem fixated on what it "really" means (apparently, you also disagree with Webster, which is funny)...so apparently you either now concede the point or were trying to pick a fight for no reason (I will direct you to jesse's post again in that regard).

Also, you failed to meet the burden of proof for both this (that Mr. Woo really somehow meant something less than the entire world when he said "worldwide") and the multiple uses of "again" and "another chance" really refers to first time countries only. Your entire argument has been attacking other posters here, ignoring what actiblizz themselves has said on the subject of re-releasing Tyrande, rather than making a substantive case of your own.

03/26/2018 06:28 AMPosted by sky3union
What part of 'I don't consider that namecalling',


Your earlier comment applies to yourself as well:

03/26/2018 05:05 AMPosted by sky3union
You just seem to fail to understand that your standard is not the 'one and all' standard.


The coc, not to mention what jesse posted here are pretty clear. I even linked the coc for your convenience, and here is jesee's post on the subject from earlier in the thread:

03/22/2018 09:18 AMPosted by Jesse Hill
As a reminder, this thread is being left open for feedback, concerns and to provide context to Team 5. Being rude, trying to build a case around assumed comments and attacking the ideas/comments of others can lead to actions and your post being removed.

Please be respectful in your posts.

Thank you.


03/26/2018 06:28 AMPosted by sky3union
So guess I'm done with this thread for now, at least with you. I've been repeating myself (for obvious reason) so much, my point is scattered across this thread. Nothing more needs to be said I believe.


Yes, you've said quite enough...the multiple personal attacks, rude posts, and attempts to derail the thread (which are all against coc and jesse's clear instructions to the contrary here).

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