[Update] Shudderwock

Play Mode Discussion
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I posted this in another thread, but I think its worthy of its own:

https://twitter.com/IksarHS/status/984981926283853824

We’ll be reading more feedback over the weekend and will revisit the Shudderwock topic early next week. Checking out both animation timings and feedback on the deck playstyle itself. Let us know what you think and enjoy Witchwood!


So, I guess they want the feedback to keep coming for a few more days yet.
Good. Glad they know 10 minute turns are an issue. XD
If they fix the animation times, I hope people give their complaints a rest. The card is fine as long as it's not broken, and doesn't need any kind of substantive change.
04/13/2018 08:46 PMPosted by Hazama
Good. Glad they know 10 minute turns are an issue. XD


They are actually after feedback on playstyle as well and, well, Kibler is the first to respond with:

I think the deck feels bad to play against due to lack of possible interaction outside of “kill them”, similar to quest rogue (though unclear if its on the same scale so far), as well as the interminable turns.


Personally idc about that atm, just fix the 'interminable turns' and see what happens in a few weeks, but thats just my opinion. Its certainly a deck to watch going forward though, for the same reasons QR was one, but the absolute priority has to be to stop these ridiculous turns durations from happening.
Thanks for re-posting this.

As with all early meta-games, we're closely monitoring all the perception and data trends. If something becomes an issue we'll figure out how to address it. Otherwise, things have been going well. There is a good amount of class representation and deck popularity feels like it's still shifting pretty rapidly.
04/13/2018 08:57 PMPosted by August Dean Ayala
Thanks for re-posting this.

As with all early meta-games, we're closely monitoring all the perception and data trends. If something becomes an issue we'll figure out how to address it. Otherwise, things have been going well. There is a good amount of class representation and deck popularity feels like it's still shifting pretty rapidly.


Dont nerf the card itself, theres absolutely no problem with the deck its being played on in terms of power level.

The only problem with the card is the animations, may i suggest a fix?

Show every animation once and then resolve all of the repeating battlecrys at once, that should do the trick to cut down the excessive animation times while not making players confused about the effects the card is doing.
I do know this...if you click the map during the animations from the offensive side, i know it speeds the process up. Also, Cube/control lock still dominates as i can't seem to defeat it, lol. I understand there are the ways, but i'm a newer player and working with the resources i have.

The other thing i noticed in a hurry after only playing for about a month and a half is that right after the release of the new expansion that i'm really excited about, that the play level went up substantially as far as competitiveness. I had previously worked hard to rank 17 (yea, i can hear it already) I'm back at rank 19 and it looks to be at 20 at this rate. My point is that it appears that since alt accounts are allowed, it's even worse on the newer players as i was actually thinking it would be better for them since the experienced players had "already" advanced. Just a thought...I'm not mad so to speak, just bewildered at the situation is all. Everyone is in the same boat that i dove into...Cheers
At this point its only an animation timing issue.

That aside this is just another way to combo out a player which is refreshing for Shaman class because I don't believe they've had a combo focused build in the past.

Whether or not this combo deck turns out to be OP in an oppressive manor remains to be seen. We can't possibly know that this early into the expansion.
04/13/2018 08:57 PMPosted by August Dean Ayala
Thanks for re-posting this.

As with all early meta-games, we're closely monitoring all the perception and data trends. If something becomes an issue we'll figure out how to address it. Otherwise, things have been going well. There is a good amount of class representation and deck popularity feels like it's still shifting pretty rapidly.
I love the set first off, got me trying all sorts of fun and interesting combinations, so kudos there. I like Shudderwock, but 10 minute animations are a legitimate issue, please fix that. Don't necessarily want a nerf however, but a way to speed or skip animations would be nice. Combo is a valid and vital part of the CCG triangle, so please keep that in mind.
I am partial to the adding the ability to skip opponent animations

I would throw it on the enemy hero portrait, You right click on the hero and on the other side of "Squelch" you have a "Skip animation" button

Beyond that you could buff lifedrinker to have lifesteal so "shutterbug" does not have the built in heal
04/13/2018 09:03 PMPosted by RexSaur
04/13/2018 08:57 PMPosted by August Dean Ayala
Thanks for re-posting this.

As with all early meta-games, we're closely monitoring all the perception and data trends. If something becomes an issue we'll figure out how to address it. Otherwise, things have been going well. There is a good amount of class representation and deck popularity feels like it's still shifting pretty rapidly.


Dont nerf the card itself, theres absolutely no problem with the deck its being played on in terms of power level.

The only problem with the card is the animations, may i suggest a fix?

Show every animation once and then resolve all of the repeating battlecrys at once, that should do the trick to cut down the excessive animation times while not making players confused about the effects the card is doing.

That was my early thoughts about it too. Then have the hover-over in the combat log show the effects like Yogg does. Or perhaps have the animations accelerate so that you initially know what's going on and by the time you start tapping your fingers getting impatient they're going fast enough to get over within a certain timeframe.

No doubt that's a tricky thing to mess with. Clarity is clearly an important part of HS's UI design and Shudderwock seems to have taken a lot of work to make sure it works from a tech perspective. Mess around too much with how Shudderwock's effect gets communicated to the player and what's already a confusing thing gets even more so. And confusion often begets frustration so it might not make things much better.

Good luck with that, Iksar and team. I'm confident you guys will find a way.
They are on it guys. Monitoring if something becomes an issue. 30 min turns arnt an issue yet so somebody push the battlecry train to an hour and maybe it gets fixed? KAPPA
04/13/2018 08:57 PMPosted by August Dean Ayala
Thanks for re-posting this.

As with all early meta-games, we're closely monitoring all the perception and data trends. If something becomes an issue we'll figure out how to address it. Otherwise, things have been going well. There is a good amount of class representation and deck popularity feels like it's still shifting pretty rapidly.


Thank you for the response, it's good to know that the eyes are looking back and haven't missed it either, and somewhat reassuring out to see a response out on the forums to feedback!

What kind of ideas is the team thinking of, by chance? I understand having a 'fun crazy' card like a yogg, and to be fair i think a lot of people were looking forward to some crazy shenanigans, but i think it turns out that it doesn't seem like all(?) the interactions were tested with the 10-15 turn loops. What ideas do your dev team have in mind? Keeping the effect but speeding up animations and cleaning them up to last under a minute, etc, avoiding stacking, etc. or changes out to the card? I guess it's the early days of the meta right now being shaken up and it's already falling, but it does seem to be a very buggy deck. I don't know if it was me or not but whenever i try to play my deck it crashes if i drop a 2nd shudderwock, and another time today while playing a match against a cubelock something went weird and his card started hovering in the air during a Baku Pally vs Cubelock. Had a turn timer and weirdly he was still able to grab and select cards, but neither of us could play anything, we could emote but the cards were frozen and unselectable. After 10 minutes straight i tried to concede and just nothing happened. Ended up manually having to close hearthstone to start another game and i still have no clue what happened. Here's a gif from the screenshots if you'd like.

Hearthstone hovering card freeze: https://i.imgur.com/PTM23wY.gif
just a thing: If you decide to nerf it because if you find it not fun to play aganist atleast rebalance it because card has very cool theme and I would hate to see it is wasted
this one from twitter seems like a good idea


Fix idea: Change Shudderwock’s invocation of Grumble’s battlecry to not work with minions summoned during the battlecry phase. It would prevent Shudderwock from returning his copies to hand.
04/13/2018 09:14 PMPosted by Makaramus
just a thing: If you decide to nerf it because if you find it not fun to play aganist atleast rebalance it because card has very cool theme and I would hate to see it is wasted


This I crafted card because it looked fun. Didn't know it was broken until later :(

And by broken I just mean the animation issue (gameplay)
Right now, playing against any Shamans with battlecry is an insta-concede for me. Hence why im stuck in unranked until then.
It's not just an animation issue. The main problem is that there is no way to interact with this type of combo. I personally feel that OTK decks are not good for Hearthstone. Shudderwock just happens to illustrate this reality in a very painful way. My solution would be to make Shutterwock immune to silences (not targetable by spells) and to give him a deathrattle of "destroy all legendary minions in your hand". Problem solved. Thank me later.

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