Honestly curious

Play Mode Discussion
Do you guys think this is the most uninteractive meta ever? I really can't think of a meta where your win/loss vs specific decks was this lopsided. Feels like this game is close to being tic-tac-toe.

You just play into certain match ups and you know instantly that you're going to win or lose.

It just isn't fun anymore. And most of the decks you play against have over valued cards and combinations that you can't even interactive with.
Aggro Shaman during Whispers/Karazhan

Pre-nerf Undertaker Hunter

Secret Paladin during Grand Tounament

Considering these I rather have what we have now
Pirate warrior was pretty uninteractive.
Shammy shams Tunnel Trogg into Totem golem was still one of the worst all time metas. You could tech vs shaman and u still lost half the time.
The only deck I consider uninteractive in the current state of the game is aggro mage (which gladly most of the deck has rotated out of standard). Want to play a spell? Counterspell. Want to play a minion? Explosive runes. All the while the mage is pressuring you by dealing high amounts of damage to your face through their burn spells.
I've managed to beat a Cubelock, an Even Paladin, and an Odd Paladin with my T4 Meme Thief Tempo Rogue deck ft. Azalina Soulthief.

So, I'd say it's not THAT bad.
The way I see it there are 2 options for a ccg:

1. The RPS meta, where the largest deciding factor is matchup.

2. The coin flip meta, where all matchups are ~50:50 (call it 45:55) and RNG (draw and/or effect) is the largest deciding factor.

So, its either polarized matchups, or a coin flip simulator. Take your pick.

I'm not a designer, so maybe I'm missing something, but I cant think of anyway to prevent one of the above happening in a ccg.
05/21/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Swampy
The way I see it there are 2 options for a ccg:

1. The RPS meta, where the largest deciding factor is matchup.

2. The coin flip meta, where all matchups are ~50:50 (call it 45:55) and RNG (draw and/or effect) is the largest deciding factor.

So, its either polarized matchups, or a coin flip simulator. Take your pick.

I'm not a designer, so maybe I'm missing something, but I cant think of anyway to prevent one of the above happening in a ccg.


Two ways to test this:

The first way is have a defined region of win rates that do not qualify as either polarized or coin flip. This will avoid the problem to at least the person who set the definition if the goal is met.

The second way can actually be done in Hearthstone. Take a bad player and have them play vs a good player. Given the "borrow deck" feature in friendly matches collection can be removed as a factor and the difference will be player skill. Define a win rate that the better player should win and have them play it out.

In friendly matches with friends/adult family members (against the kids I play to run out of cards) my win rate is over 90% regardless of deck played. I'd say skill matters quite a bit, it's just that a match maker that actually works will remove that as a factor at all by pairing evenly skilled players most of the time.
Cheatstone vs hand vomit. Truly created legendary and unforgettable games. The one where the paladin played call to arms on turn 4. Or that other game where the warlock dark pacted his lackey on turn 6 into a doomguard. Or when the druid/priest played spiteful summoner on turn 6.

I don't know how I will live with these turns moving to 5 and 7 respectively. I don't think I'll ever be able to play the game again. I just can't wrap my head around having to wait an extra turn. I am incapable of independent thought or deck building so this has sent my whole world into disarray.
05/22/2018 12:40 AMPosted by JacktR
Cheatstone vs hand vomit. Truly created legendary and unforgettable games. The one where the paladin played call to arms on turn 4. Or that other game where the warlock dark pacted his lackey on turn 6 into a doomguard. Or when the druid/priest played spiteful summoner on turn 6.

I don't know how I will live with these turns moving to 5 and 7 respectively. I don't think I'll ever be able to play the game again. I just can't wrap my head around having to wait an extra turn. I am incapable of independent thought or deck building so this has sent my whole world into disarray.


Remember that one time somebody dropped a Tunnel Trogg and followed that up with a Totem Golem? So memorable.

Or wait, that absolute madman who actually played a Mysterious Challenger on turn 6 to get a full set of secrets onto the field? Legendary, I tell you.

Or wait wait wait!
Way back, I once ran into a dude who actually played, and I **** you not, an UNDERTAKER into two Leper Gnomes. Or was it a Haunted Creeper on turn 2? I don't remember. Point is, that dude was a creative mastermind!

Too bad those interesting and interactive days of Hearthstone are gone. Only stupid netdeckers these days.
I'm having a blast will Rexxar Spell Hunter, 70% win rate against spitefuls and baku decks, 0% against cube though.
The uninterractive thing I see in this meta is warlock. Just pull some stats on the board without drawbacks and when there is not more things, it continues with the op Guldan and his busted heropower. So you just lose to fatigue. It’s like ffs.
pre-nerf patron warrior, aggro shaman, pirate warrior, and machine gun priest were far more uninteractive.
05/21/2018 05:27 PMPosted by Thecryomanic
Secret Paladin during Grand Tounament


(Tune of A Whole New World Plays)

'I will summon this girl. Next turn playing knife juggler. Value muster then top deck shredder. Coining challenger. The perfect curve!'

1:19@ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V__qLUHd2qg
05/21/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Swampy
The way I see it there are 2 options for a ccg:

1. The RPS meta, where the largest deciding factor is matchup.

2. The coin flip meta, where all matchups are ~50:50 (call it 45:55) and RNG (draw and/or effect) is the largest deciding factor.

So, its either polarized matchups, or a coin flip simulator. Take your pick.

I'm not a designer, so maybe I'm missing something, but I cant think of anyway to prevent one of the above happening in a ccg.


#1 (polarized matchups) is very unfun in my opinion. Sure, you can choose a deck that is effective vs what you see the most, but the games themselves are generally one-sided and boring for both players.

#2 doesn't have to involve RNG as the primary determining factor. If it's aggro vs aggro then yea, the one that draws better probably wins. If the games last longer and the cards are mostly low-varience, though, good decision-making can lead to higher win-rates. In that case it isn't a coin-flip even though it's 45-55, but designing a set that leads to that situation is understandably difficult.
remove voidlord from the game and remove beast tag from hadronox. problem solved.
05/22/2018 06:52 AMPosted by Mckay
remove voidlord from the game and remove beast tag from hadronox. problem solved.
both are fine.
Only issue voidlord has/had is lackey cheating it out.
05/21/2018 06:43 PMPosted by Excism
The only deck I consider uninteractive in the current state of the game is aggro mage (which gladly most of the deck has rotated out of standard). Want to play a spell? Counterspell. Want to play a minion? Explosive runes. All the while the mage is pressuring you by dealing high amounts of damage to your face through their burn spells.


I guess you haven't faced a Quest Rogue deck yet? You'd be playing solitaire, not Hearthstone. There's not pretty much you can do about his quest (which is the main problem of the Quest Rogue concept itself) and the only way you're gonna win against them is to go AGGRO. You know an archetype is not done well when the solution to it is to go AGGRO.
I don't know if "uninteractive" is the right term. You get to interact a lot with the decks in this meta, but the matchups are heavily slanted. It's a very rock, paper, scissors meta. So, even though you can interact with even paladin when it is your decks kryptonite, you're still going to lose 95% of the time.
We have now got the highest number of completely broken decks existing in the meta at once, certainly. Decks where, if you haven't killed your opponent by turn 6 or 7, you are just completely doomed and nothing you do past that point matters.

Hadronox druids, Quest Rogues & Cube warlocks spring to mind but there are many more such decks that are enabled by a single card or combo that, once played becomes completely unbeatable and you have lost the game.

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