Do Lock nerfs go far enough?

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Im really skeptical that cutting the healing from Dark Pact in half and adding one more mana to Possessed Lackey is going to bring Warlock into line. I have a bad feeling that after these nerfs go live, Warlock is just going to be absolutely dominant in the post-meta since their two biggest competitors are getting hit FAR harder.

Am I just being a Doomsayer here or do other people share my skepticism? These nerfs seem almost inconsequential to the decks that are impacted.
Cubelock winrates are nowhere near decks like even paladin, and the frequency of cubelock in the meta is not alarmingly high. I think nerfing 2 key cards in that deck is more than sufficient.
Yes they do, at least for cubelock.

Zoolock will remain unaffected as they didn't hit doomguard or gul dan.
And control lock might see a slight winrate drop but nothing too fancy

No inconsequential nerfs are the ones applied to spiteful summoner, people who believe adding 1 more mana to the cost of it will be the end of spiteful decks are savagely mistaken, this card is still bat!@#$ crazy
I doubt it. Cubelock still has plenty of tools to weather Aggro (Defiles, Hellfires, Taunts, Heals). They can absorb the loss of 4 healing and a 1 mana delay on Lackeys.

Cubelock will push through the changes largely intact with all its major power still in place. They'll still be able to do One-Turn Cube/Pacts and flood the board with 5/7 Doomguards. They'll still be able to jam out early Mountain Giants and Voidlords. Guldan will still rez them up a huge pile of either Doomguards and/or Voidlords. The engine that makes Cubelock a steamroller is still there. And it's biggest opponent on Ranked (Even Paladin) is taking a major hit ... so it may end up actually doing better than ever after the changes.
it will cause the rate of cubelocks to reduce. the dark pact nerf is actually a serious reduction in the deck's ability to go as far into the red with their life total.

the increase in cost to possessed lackey makes it a turn slower as well, so there will be an extra draw that the opponent can hope to draw an answer in.

it's not a massive killing of the deck, but rather making it a little slower and a little less popular.

i love the nerf to crystal core. i haven't seen more than 10 quest rogues since the quest got nerfed to put 5 minions into play. making the reward all 4/4s will simply erase this card from the game. what a waste of a card nerf.
No it won't. The nerf to crystal core will do absolutely nothing. The problem with QR is that they can generate almost infinite value, slower decks still won't be able to compete with it and aggro decks will still mop the floor with it. It's a placebo nerf that will only deter the FOTM players from playing it
EDIT : at least until they see that it is actually barely affected at all by those nerfs and start playing it again
Warlock was not nerfed enough. Doomguard, defile and voidlord should all have been brutally nerfed.
05/16/2018 01:06 PMPosted by iNostra
Yes they do, at least for cubelock.

Zoolock will remain unaffected as they didn't hit doomguard or gul dan.
And control lock might see a slight winrate drop but nothing too fancy

No inconsequential nerfs are the ones applied to spiteful summoner, people who believe adding 1 more mana to the cost of it will be the end of spiteful decks are savagely mistaken, this card is still bat!@#$ crazy


It really depends what kind of deck you're playing. That additional turn gives my Mage 1 more turn to draw Poly/Voodoo/Meteor/Blizzard/Flamestrike. Being played on turn 7 means that I'll be able to drop Arcane Artificer + Blizzard /Meteor /Poly+Ping /Flamestrike (potentially).

Those nerfs will totally improve my win-rate against those decks.

Hell, even for my Control Hunter, it will give my deck enough time to play Crushing Wall!
Even if cubelock is still a top tier deck, its better to do small increment nerfs rather than overshooting it and running cubelock into the ground.

With that said, blizzard needs to try a lot harder to balance the game. Yes, it costs them money for every update they need to pass by apple or others. But hearthstone makes enough money to absorb that cost. Balancing issues boils down to customer service, and with blizzards supposed high standard for the quality of their games, its a real shame any changes take so long to impement. If they really wanted to make sure balance updates were at a minimum, they need to focus more on releasing cards that are properly balanced.
Their winrate will drop slightly, but they'll still be as annoying to play against. The deck will still work the same mechanically. There's also still the turn 5 weapon, turn 6 Cube + Pact on Voidlord.

If they lose favor on the ladder and we start taking out Cubes and Spellbreakers, coming across a Cube on the ladder will potentially be extremely frustrating.

It's just one of those decks they shouldn't have made. They could have given Warlock much more fun tools. But we got cheat-a-Void instead.
Defile is still a 5 mana card you only have to pay 2 for somehow???
No, the lock nerfs are inconsequential.
The goal of a proper nerf is to help even out winrates, not totally destroy deck archetypes.
1. cubelock is probably dead.

2. They not even hit the real villain that not rotates and will probably be the reason of that and a lot of other nerfs in future when we talk about warlock.

Warlock hero power.

Maybe most not understand but if warlocks lifetap that insane amount it only showcases how powerfull it is and that the life cost isn't enough.

Zoolock

Tap for have something to play since you dump your hand as a zoo.

Handlock

Tap to fill your hand faster

Cubelock

Tap to find your combo pieces

Control lock

Tap to find your answers

That is how you play warlock and why lifetap needs a nerf.

Is thanks to lifetap making things ultra consistent without seriously consequences that warlock can't have good class cards.

Cubelock will be the more "warlocky" deck that we will see for a good time because from now on they will returned to design around warlock hero power by making junk level class cards like before and players will return to play decks with more than 60% of neutral cards with the class.
05/16/2018 02:17 PMPosted by Swift
The goal of a proper nerf is to help even out winrates, not totally destroy deck archetypes.


The point of the post is that these nerfs really don't do anything. The loss of 8 total healing in a deck that can heal upwards of 30hp not including DK armor and hero power is basically irrelevant. It's a loss that means nothing to the deck as a whole and only superficially affects the decks power. The same goes for kicking Lackey up one more mana. It's pretty rare for any deck to have lethal potential on a warlock by turn 6 or 7 simply because of all the control tools and healing the deck has. These nerfs are basically love taps at best and nothing at worst. Not to mention the fact that these decks hardest counters are getting hit a hell of a lot harder.

I wouldn't care if blizzard took a light footed approach to nerfing if they actually made balance changes more frequently, but because they take so long to get these things done if these nerfs don't accomplish anything we will just have many more months of Warlock dominance on ladder.
The only things the nerfs do is buy the opposition a little bit of time to try and anticipate the warlocks next move and try and counter. Cube is still a powerful deck that cubing a voidlord move is a particular hate of mine. Unless you run silence you are screwed might aswell auto concede.....
Warlock has tools to fend off any early aggro without problems.

This changes are just cosmetic.

Only thing these changes might accomplish is boost to Aggro mage by making CtA to land 1 turn later thus improving the matchup against paladins.
Actually Warlock has a really interesting winrate in tournaments.

EU HCT playoff: 50% winrate in 500 games.

https://battlefy.com/hearthstone-esports/2018-hct-europe-summer-playoffs/5acfd5ebb9cea8038de6eda3/stage/5aed60c2aca0b703dfd95750/stats

NA HCT playoff : 49% winrate in 449 games

https://battlefy.com/hearthstone-esports/2018-hct-americas-summer-playoffs/5acfd6bb5ee985036f5bbfc2/stage/5af6fa52f1166703d0ba66f8/stats

Even on ladder they have 50.3% winrate (from https://hsreplay.net). If we say that the "ideal balanced class" would have an average of 50% winrate across the board. Then Warlock is really close to being that class right now.
blizz said they wanted to tone it down to levels close to the rest control decks not kill the deck off.
How about waiting for the nerfs to go live to see if they work.
05/16/2018 11:58 PMPosted by Hearthburn
05/16/2018 02:17 PMPosted by Swift
The goal of a proper nerf is to help even out winrates, not totally destroy deck archetypes.


The point of the post is that these nerfs really don't do anything. The loss of 8 total healing in a deck that can heal upwards of 30hp not including DK armor and hero power is basically irrelevant. It's a loss that means nothing to the deck as a whole and only superficially affects the decks power. The same goes for kicking Lackey up one more mana. It's pretty rare for any deck to have lethal potential on a warlock by turn 6 or 7 simply because of all the control tools and healing the deck has. These nerfs are basically love taps at best and nothing at worst. Not to mention the fact that these decks hardest counters are getting hit a hell of a lot harder.

I wouldn't care if blizzard took a light footed approach to nerfing if they actually made balance changes more frequently, but because they take so long to get these things done if these nerfs don't accomplish anything we will just have many more months of Warlock dominance on ladder.


im wondering if you have ever played cubelock?
changing the mana on lackey is a big deal, a lot of times i dont get skull early and have to play lackey and dark pact it early to try and stabilize, esp since there are so many pali decks around, one turn makes all the difference against aggro

with cubelock having a 50% winrate pre nerf i see it dropping to mid to low 40s

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