keleseth in arena, a very bad idea

Arena Discussion
ok look at this and tell me this is fair

https://imgur.com/a/TpFePuE

who in his right mind would allow keleseth in arena!!!!!? a completely moron, that's who
i got annihilited, like it wasn't even funny, no trades, no nothing, just drop buffed minions and go face, if he can hero power, easy win

he got saronite chaingang of course, you can't pick keleseth without saronite come on guys, we are professionals, we know how to balance videogames
worst developers in the videogame biz, hands down

there is no excuse. arena is extremely polarized on board control and minion fighting for it. keleseth is an insta-win game card, more so if plaied on turn 2

and if you disagree you're a moron or a troll
https://hsreplay.net/cards/#text=keleseth

55% win rate? um...... that's actually pretty low considering some cards played win rate is like much higher eg bonemare fungalmancer....... i'm not disagreeing with u it's a super high roll card but there's more cards than keleseth that's the issue in arena

u're just frustrated cuz u lost 1 game on a 25% after mulligan for that clown to pull that off
first off those stats are from constructed

bonemare and fungalmancer are good cards for sure, but are situational and part of the fight for the board. past turn 8 you kinda have to expect a bonemare to drop at some point, and with fungalmancer same story, you should always keep in mind that 2 minions can be buffed , etc etc

keleseth though is a whole another story

as said before arena is very board control, and when i draft i always keep in mind such concept. i pick minions for their cost and stat line ratio; battlecries and other effects come on second hand.

especially at the beginning of the game the battle for the board is crucial, and very dependant of such stat lines, so a 3 drop will fight a 3 drop, but will can't fight efficiently a 4 drop.

but of course with keleseth this concept is out of the window. a 3 drop will outvalue a 4 drop and sometimes 5 drops, so you can see, right from the get go, you are screwed

keleseth on turn 2 it's just insta-win card. you can't come back from that, especially when you are like me, who is shoved in the crap-tier draftpool

so yeah, i'm frustrated because i see this all the time, people get !@#$ing draft on steroids, and i see only %^-*, i waste my gold for arena that yeld nothing, i get trolled by the system and the few times i get 7 wins, i get 70 gold and a rare, i am sick of this !@#$
https://hsreplay.net/cards/#gameType=ARENA&sortBy=playedWinrate&sortDirection=ascending&text=kele

whoops WRONG STATS the real stats are this

deck win rate 56.3% and 50.9% WIN WHEN PLAYED IN ARENA LOL OK MAN gotta ban that card VERY SCARY HOLY CRAP ROFL lol

scared of that .9% inbalance ROFL While other cards are like 10+% and occur more often please man u're a clown

u're also saying the 60%+ win rate when played cards aren't an issue because the .9% on keleseth is actually more of an issue and played x10 or more less think about what you are trying to say it's just downright absolutely potato ... refrain from being a potato
Keleseth is not that good in arena. I have drafted Keleseth deck few times and it never took off.

best was Rogue with 8 wins. The best class to make a deck without 2 drops. The thing is out of those 8 wins I got one that I won because of Keleseth.

Not taking two drops is pretty bad in arena =P
Keleseth is not that good in arena. I have drafted Keleseth deck few times and it never really took off...
Best was Rogue with 8 wins. The best class to make a deck without 2 drops. The thing is out of those 8 wins I got one that I won because of Keleseth.

Not taking two drops is pretty bad in arena =P
Pulling off Kelseth in arena is so hopeless it makes it more amusing then odd. The RNG in arena is crazy i would never on my best day pick kelseth over every other 2 drop in arena....thats just suicide.
hence why i said it's a stupid moronic post

and if you disagree you're a moron or a troll

no u're an idiot degenerate fool

and then i have the stats to back up that card is irrelevant so i don't disagree with your stance but the stats don't back it up sucks you lost a 25% roll but i lose to morons with death wing all the time and i'm an past leaderboard player :)
Wrathblade is right, the chances of you drafting that card and drafting the proper deck are so rare ... not to mention drawing him for turn 2.

Much worse stuff is more common..
sure play with your stats all you want

keleseth on turn 2 in arena is 100% win, i don't care about any else dumb stats you have to pull out of your !@#
09/11/2018 01:47 PMPosted by mark970
sure play with your stats all you want

keleseth on turn 2 in arena is 100% win, i don't care about any else dumb stats you have to pull out of your !@#


stats are stats over millions of games u're a clown that lost 1 game and crying about it ...

sorry this is hearthstone U LOSE games sometimes to keleseth

most common u lose to death speaker fungal scalebane bone mare giggling they all have 58% win rate or higher and played x10 as more but u know u're a special snowflake so you can shoove that stupid theory up your SDF!@#$@#$ stupid !@#$ing spastic
09/11/2018 12:26 PMPosted by l4ndm1n3
Wrathblade is right, the chances of you drafting that card and drafting the proper deck are so rare ... not to mention drawing him for turn 2.

Much worse stuff is more common..


i can't even remember the last time i lost to keleseth wtf is this idiot on about and i've done 630 RUNS recorded and + others not recorded !@#$ing potato
what a moron

comparing stats of rare,common and legendaries

ofc course the win rate of giggling inventor or scalebane are higher, because you can draft more then once and they are middle game so they fit perfectly in the arena meta

you come here calling names and you still don't !@#$ing understand what it's the point, you %^-*ing moron

it's keleseth and the buff on the whole deck that it's the problem, it's the coin flipping moronic attitude of aholeslike you

turn 2 keleseth, ahah i win, so funny. oh no keleseth turn 16, too bad i lose and my stats prove that keleseth is ok, because i lost even tho i drafted it

you are a moron, keleseth should be banned even if trn 2 keleseth was the 0.1% ,because is a card that overturn everything about arena, it's a card that is not balanced for arena, end of the story,you moronicasshatted clown

wrathblade, go !@#$ yourself %^-*
09/11/2018 01:47 PMPosted by mark970
sure play with your stats all you want

keleseth on turn 2 in arena is 100% win, i don't care about any else dumb stats you have to pull out of your !@#

First, you need to be lucky enough to find Keleseth early enough in your draft, before you already picked any 2 mana cards.
Then you need to be able to not get any 2 mana cards the rest of the draft. Which may mean picking a horrible card if the other two are 2 mana. And you still run the risk of getting to pick between three 2 mana cards - boom, Keleseth just became a low tempo 2-mana 2-2 without positive effect.
Then you need to find him in your opening hand or draw him on the first two turns. Even with coin (50% of the games) and full mulligan (which is often not optimal), that's roughly a 1 in 3 chance. Going first and full mulligan, the chance drops to just over 1 in 4. With a more realistic mulligan (keeping 1- and 3-drops just in case I don't get Keleseth), the chance drops to less than 25%.

You are looking at this from the perspective of a player who lost because this was the game where your opponent made this 1 in 4 roll. To judge the balance of a card, you have to look at all games. Your opponent probably did very bad in many other of their games - because most games they would start without Keleseth, and have bad tempo at the start of the game because of their lack of 2-drops.

Bottom line:
1. Keleseth when offered late in the draft is almost always worthless.
2. Keleseth offered early in the draft comes with a risk: you may have to sacrifice a lot of good value cards because they are 2 mana and in the end the game may still present you with a choice of three 2 mana cards.
3. If you do manage to get Keleseth and no other 2 mana cards, then you have a huge (often game winning) advantage in perhaps 20-25% of the games, but at the cost of lower overall deck quality see point 2) and a severe tempo disadvantage in the early game.
4. If you pick Keleseth and the rest of the draft backfires, then you have the same lower deck quality and tempo disadvantage but with no chance of a lucky break ever. (Well, okay, if you have Keleseth and one other 2 mana card there is still a finite -though small- chance of getting both in hand by turn 2)

I'd say that a card that gives you a huge advantage in 1 out of 4 games at the cosst of a disadvantage in 3 out of 4 games sounds reasonably balanced.

Yes, it sucks to be on the receiving end of that 1 in 4 lucky opening hand. But there are lots of cards that can turn a game in arena when drawn at just the right time. Topdecking a buff card after my opponent couldn't clear my wide board and played some taunts instead. The Black Knight after you play a 9 mana taunt. Turn 1 Zombie Chow (when Arena was still using the wild format). Turn 10 Ultimate Infestation. Mossy Horror after I play Spreading Plague or Giggling Inventor. Mind Control after I play a big minion. Etc etc etc.
I personally don't think any of the above is unbalanced in arena, it are just perfect answers or perfect openings you can sometimes, if you are lucky, draw.
I do think that Keleseth is overall a worse card than any of the examples above.
09/12/2018 12:59 AMPosted by BigHugger
09/11/2018 01:47 PMPosted by mark970
sure play with your stats all you want

keleseth on turn 2 in arena is 100% win, i don't care about any else dumb stats you have to pull out of your !@#

First, you need to be lucky enough to find Keleseth early enough in your draft, before you already picked any 2 mana cards.
Then you need to be able to not get any 2 mana cards the rest of the draft. Which may mean picking a horrible card if the other two are 2 mana. And you still run the risk of getting to pick between three 2 mana cards - boom, Keleseth just became a low tempo 2-mana 2-2 without positive effect.
Then you need to find him in your opening hand or draw him on the first two turns. Even with coin (50% of the games) and full mulligan (which is often not optimal), that's roughly a 1 in 3 chance. Going first and full mulligan, the chance drops to just over 1 in 4. With a more realistic mulligan (keeping 1- and 3-drops just in case I don't get Keleseth), the chance drops to less than 25%.

You are looking at this from the perspective of a player who lost because this was the game where your opponent made this 1 in 4 roll. To judge the balance of a card, you have to look at all games. Your opponent probably did very bad in many other of their games - because most games they would start without Keleseth, and have bad tempo at the start of the game because of their lack of 2-drops.

Bottom line:
1. Keleseth when offered late in the draft is almost always worthless.
2. Keleseth offered early in the draft comes with a risk: you may have to sacrifice a lot of good value cards because they are 2 mana and in the end the game may still present you with a choice of three 2 mana cards.
3. If you do manage to get Keleseth and no other 2 mana cards, then you have a huge (often game winning) advantage in perhaps 20-25% of the games, but at the cost of lower overall deck quality see point 2) and a severe tempo disadvantage in the early game.
4. If you pick Keleseth and the rest of the draft backfires, then you have the same lower deck quality and tempo disadvantage but with no chance of a lucky break ever. (Well, okay, if you have Keleseth and one other 2 mana card there is still a finite -though small- chance of getting both in hand by turn 2)

I'd say that a card that gives you a huge advantage in 1 out of 4 games at the cosst of a disadvantage in 3 out of 4 games sounds reasonably balanced.

Yes, it sucks to be on the receiving end of that 1 in 4 lucky opening hand. But there are lots of cards that can turn a game in arena when drawn at just the right time. Topdecking a buff card after my opponent couldn't clear my wide board and played some taunts instead. The Black Knight after you play a 9 mana taunt. Turn 1 Zombie Chow (when Arena was still using the wild format). Turn 10 Ultimate Infestation. Mossy Horror after I play Spreading Plague or Giggling Inventor. Mind Control after I play a big minion. Etc etc etc.
I personally don't think any of the above is unbalanced in arena, it are just perfect answers or perfect openings you can sometimes, if you are lucky, draw.
I do think that Keleseth is overall a worse card than any of the examples above.


thank god someone with a brain to explain this if you can't follow and yeah LOL he went into length but yeah i said 25% :P lol but didn't show i derive it thanks for that atleast this forum ain't fool of complete tools
Well at least the OP got the title right...

Taking "keleseth in arena, a very bad idea"

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum