Feedback: Giggling Inventor is absolutely fine because

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09/18/2018 08:20 PMPosted by Bowser
09/18/2018 08:17 PMPosted by Boreas
i think its fine because aggro decks can win or leave you at 10 hp or less by turn 5 so having a card giving you a chance for a come back is

any other taunt just get silenced


The problem I have with it is its also being used BY aggro decks simply 'cos of its board refill ability. I have no problem with strong neutral cards, but the same strong neutrals shouldnt be seen in the majority of decks regardless of archetype imo.

They used Belcher and Creeper as their comparisons. These very rarely had a place in aggro decks, thats where my issue lies.


That comment was classic Donais salt, btw, blaming players complaining for when they get too out of hand. Like when Shadowreaper anduin was a top deck before the deck was nerfed, he was like "well, you guys wanted good priest cards." Hurr durr, yeah, that's what we meant, guy - we wanted a broken, annoying combo deck.

This sounds like him slouching in his little chair and scoffing, "well, you guys wanted neutral taunts, what do you want from me!?" Like, 2 years ago people were asking for taunts and healing to replace sludge belcher and healbot in standard. We're good now. Thanks, buddy. Now take your little clowns back to your clown school.
09/18/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Lyrist
09/18/2018 02:49 PMPosted by LoveRhino
It's three cards mashed into one, for the same amount of mana.

Two annoy o Trons and a 2/1 don't seem great, unless you can play them as one card.


Why even bother posting.

Yes, of course putting them on one card is great. That's why it's the most played card in the game.


Sorry! I’ll run things by you first next time to prevent your aggressive reply.
09/18/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Lyrist
Say no way say no way no waaaay nah nah why don't you get a job(fixing this message board?)

I have to type this to try to avoid having this post filtered after being eaten once before.

09/18/2018 01:01 PMPosted by Migol
...

Again, just like the crab vs the (half neutral?) murlocs? Murlocadin was going out of control a few times, crabs were added to decks, murlocadin went downhill pretty quickly. Cards like that force the meta away from being one-sided because they can hard-counter anything that becomes too dominant.


Murloc decks weren't discouraged by crabs. You couldn't guarantee drawing it in the murloc matchup, there were plenty on non-murloc matchups to discourage using it in the first place, and even if you did hit them with a crab they were so good at flooding and buffing the board that they could still win anyway. They only fell off because their means of buffing and flooding got weaker than other options.


Viscious Syndicate (they heavily track game data if you haven't read them before) would disagree. They saw a strong reaction in the meta of decks putting crabs in against murlocs, and the murloc decks taking a downward spike. Yes, rng will come into play on specific games, but over the course of many games the counter-cards prevail.
09/20/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Migol
Say no way say no way no waaaay nah nah why don't you get a job(fixing this message board?)

I have to type this to try to avoid having this post filtered after being eaten once before.

<span class="truncated">...</span>

Murloc decks weren't discouraged by crabs. You couldn't guarantee drawing it in the murloc matchup, there were plenty on non-murloc matchups to discourage using it in the first place, and even if you did hit them with a crab they were so good at flooding and buffing the board that they could still win anyway. They only fell off because their means of buffing and flooding got weaker than other options.


Viscious Syndicate (they heavily track game data if you haven't read them before) would disagree. They saw a strong reaction in the meta of decks putting crabs in against murlocs, and the murloc decks taking a downward spike. Yes, rng will come into play on specific games, but over the course of many games the counter-cards prevail.


It was still a top deck. It only really fell after Call to Arms was nerfed, then odd paladin had the cheesiest board flooding and setups so people made the switch.
another topic on a balanced card ><
2+2+1=5, so why do you keep making topics?
09/20/2018 08:50 AMPosted by Shakou
another topic on a balanced card ><
2+2+1=5, so why do you keep making topics?


Simple math can't determine balance in a competitive game.
09/20/2018 09:17 AMPosted by Lyrist
09/20/2018 08:50 AMPosted by Shakou
another topic on a balanced card ><
2+2+1=5, so why do you keep making topics?
Simple math can't determine balance in a competitive game.
Basically this. Adding mana costs just doesn't actually help to determine overall power. It never has.

In this case, you get 5 mana worth of stuff (okay, 4.7 mana worth of stuff), for 5 mana. But each piece played separately would cost 1 card. So this costs 2 fewer cards.

But that way of looking at it is equally misleading, because it completely misses the point of why early drops are powerful. 2-drops are good BECAUSE you can play them on turn 2. They are significantly worse after that, for obvious reasons.

This is exactly why Call to Arms is just not very impressive at 5 mana. And why Silver Hand Knight never saw any play. Yeah, it's a fantastic 3-drop and a poor 2-drop, put together, for 5 mana (and 1 card). But you can't play them separately, and need to wait until turn 5 to play it. So it sucks.

Neither of those methods, by themselves, do anything to help gauge the power of the card. You need to use other metrics for that. Prevalence is one of them.

I'm still not convinced the card needs a nerf, but it is certainly powerful and prevalent. The issue is that there are no real alternatives at that slot, and the card is incredibly versatile. Which is why you see it in more than just control and slow midrange.

Sludge Belcher would see just as much play in Control and slow midrange. It's just that 3 sticky bodies (and combat disruption) are also really good in Odd Rogue and Quest Rogue. So we see these guys more than we would see Belcher.
Ive been playing control priest this season mainly because it functions perfectly well without both giggles and his counter tech cards. Mercifully I haven't faced too many odd warriors or armor fiesta druids on my way to rank 1 which helps my sanity a lot lol and I love playing the deck which is an added bonus. When giggles is played by an aggro deck or even some control decks im normally grateful for the tempo that my opponent loses allowing me to clear/ heal/ develop. Of course I get absolutely wrecked on occasion by fungal/ blood knight/ cold blood, but Ive a positive win rate against all of the aggro decks that run the card. Don't get me wrong, Im not a fan of the card by any means, but it doesn't feel like corridor creeper or bonemare to me anyway. Maybe unfair comparisons, (obviously sludge is more fitting) but they absolutely needed the nerf hammer. Giggles is right on the borderline imo.
Imo, it's fine because it has multiple counters.

Blood Knight/Mossy Horror for aggro or midrange decks
Primordial Drake for late game control decks
Heck, Wild Pyro has worked well for me playing Control Priest lately
09/20/2018 10:12 AMPosted by AlvasViseron
Imo, it's fine because it has multiple counters.

Blood Knight/Mossy Horror for aggro or midrange decks
Primordial Drake for late game control decks
Heck, Wild Pyro has worked well for me playing Control Priest lately
I've never liked the "has counters" argument, because it applies to most cards, inclusing the overpowered ones. Also, being forced to play a counter-card that would otherwise not be in your deck seems bad when decks are only 30 cards.

However, in this case, I think it's a reasonable argument, as long as you include the relevant nuance.

In this case, Mossy Horror is not being included for Inventor. That's just an added bonus to what it does against Druid. And it is good against some Zoo boards, at least for the 65% of the time that they don't get Keleseth.

Blood Knight, also, is only used in decks that also have Argent Squire. This gives them the ability to create a 6/6 minion (for 2 cards and 4 mana, but on turn 2/3), which some decks have a harder time dealing with than just the small guys.

What this means is that the counter-cards are actually versatile, and help with several matchups and board states. They wouldn't be used this much if Inventor was the only thing they were good against.

(Also, when playing Miracle Rogue, Fan of Knives seemed great against them. And Primordial Drake/Wild Pyro are good as well, in the instances where the trons are actually dangerous.)

It's still quite high on the power-level and ubiquity metrics. But I'm okay with the "waiting" approach Blizzard is taking. With that card, at least.

Now, if you're talking about Wild cards, that's a different story.
nobody does find it weird that it casts a card that already existed ? like you have a card that summons 2 amani berserker - i mean its hard to be less imaginativ than that I am afraid... could have called it any name - given it any picture ... why does it have to be annoying ...and an existing annoying never the less.

Is blizzard trolling us with the new hero that is also annoyo - tron ?
09/18/2018 02:49 PMPosted by LoveRhino
It's three cards mashed into one, for the same amount of mana.

Two annoy o Trons and a 2/1 don't seem great, unless you can play them as one card.


I fully agree here. The mana cost is correct, the fact that you have it bundled into one card is very powerful. Playing three cards to get 2 annoy trons and a 2/1 would typically be an awful play, not to mention 3 cards in your deck for an awful play. Bundle those cards together for the same mana cost and there is no sacrifice. I think increasing the mana cost to 6 might not kill the card, it'll still have its utility. I imagine more cards being printed like this which are basically just several cards rolled into one. I think that down the line this could really change up how we perceive cards and their usefulness. Anytime you can reduce the cards needed in your deck and still have a useful but powerful effect is strong!
spreading plague is still a bigger issue for me over giggling assuming you have no counters in hand. A 4 taunt plague is about equal to an average reno jackson heal and you get two in a class that has a bunch of other armor and health options.
The hell I cannot understand hatred on this card. Okay, QR, I got it.
But the other decks? It does NOTHING. Just a little delay, compared to spreading plague or druid's armor it's just weak.
How can you complain about 2 minions 1/2 with DS and 2/1 that is killable by hero powers... Some people just get an answer for zoolocks and it makes a lot of people crying.
When I face GI, I just kill it xD Loses 1-2hp on my minions and the game is still on... Let's make it something like tri-class so QR and maybe 1-2 decks can't play it and problem is solved.
It's not even a 10% of power that wild priest does with their 10 obsidian statues that are unbeatable to any control deck...
Just stop crying and crying about 4/5 stats with 2x DS that does nothing but dealing 0-2dmg. There are tons of counterplays and tons of better cards.

And it's GOOOOOOD that it plays in all archetypes. It means it's strong, but doesn't win games, does nothing to other minions.

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