Balance Update October 2018

Play Mode Discussion
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10/16/2018 06:00 AMPosted by TheChemist
10/16/2018 05:45 AMPosted by Molot
so total value should be 6 max for it to be included in decks.

True but then again even decks (especially even shaman) would be having a party

And that's why Baku/Genn was a mistake. While the deck you can build with them are powerful, the actual gameplay is really really boring. Use your hero power a lot. Win the game. And as long as they are around, Blizzard can't simply adjust mana cost of a card even if the card would be reasonable in that mana slot (Giggles for 6) simply because of Baku/Genn.
10/16/2018 11:28 PMPosted by LuckyOwl
Currently the player base of hearthstone is declining because the meta stale... deck diversity is boring..


What is your source for this info?

And that's why Baku/Genn was a mistake. While the deck you can build with them are powerful, the actual gameplay is really really boring. Use your hero power a lot. Win the game. And as long as they are around, Blizzard can't simply adjust mana cost of a card even if the card would be reasonable in that mana slot (Giggles for 6) simply because of Baku/Genn.


What upsets me is Baku made people think rogue was good all of a sudden when really it’s just by virtue of having four damage for two mana at their disposal. Like instead of printing good/interesting/fun cards for a class that was previously very much fair and skill oriented, they turned it a face deck with a lot less depth.

The same could be said about pally, but it didn’t really fundamentally change their dude plan it just enhanced it, but it did suck out a lot of what made it interesting.

On the other hand, I will say I like that genn finally turned on shaman and made their hero power not completely and totally awful (which it otherwise is). Shaman definetly deserved that and it does add to the classes primary game plan in a good way just by making it not suck so bad.

They should remove those two cards but reprint the effects on class specific cards. I know that’s pretty outlandish to say but I think it would make for an elegant solution.
I like how everyone here hates “I win cards”, but when Blizzard nerfs a card that can win 30% of the time on turn 1 (less then the amount of times Druid gets its perfect draw everyone likes to moan about, might I add) there’s an uproar.
10/17/2018 12:51 AMPosted by Haunter187
I like how everyone here hates “I win cards”, but when Blizzard nerfs a card that can win 30% of the time on turn 1 (less then the amount of times Druid gets its perfect draw everyone likes to moan about, might I add) there’s an uproar.


That's a bit disingenuous. For most it's more that Wyrm was hit while stronger, more problematic cards/classes/decks were left untouched.
rather see blizz address arcanologist over wyrm.
mana wyrm has been a staple, always has been meta, and didn't always have a turn-2 minion, draw a 3-cost spell, that synergizes with mana wyrm.

if a mage deck wants to go all in on mana wyrm and apprentice...that's fine...since apprentice doesn't draw their turn-3 wyrm synergy / KTM wyrm synergy.

just like FWA, they let the expansion cards dictate the nerf to the classic card.
Arcanologist is more MVP than Mana Wyrm...because Mana Wyrm will run out of cards much faster without Arcanologist….and well...running out of cards on Turn-3 as aggro mage is a big deal...but with Arcanologist...running out of cards doesn't happen. Arc's the problem, not Wyrm.

when you change such core cards everyone is used to like 2 mana fwa and 1 mana wyrm...that matters...people don't like change to classic cards when the expansion cards are what boost it's powerlevel over the top. think about it...mana wyrm in classic/basic hs wasn't game-winning....its the powerlevel of the new cards that make the old cards busted. it sucks logging into hs going 'ok fwa is 3 mana, when it felt right at 2...wyrms at 2, when it felt right at 1' everyone knows its your expansion cards that are the problem.
10/17/2018 01:56 AMPosted by Thorodan
rather see blizz address arcanologist over wyrm.
mana wyrm has been a staple, always has been meta, and didn't always have a turn-2 minion, draw a 3-cost spell, that synergizes with mana wyrm.
What's up with your issue with Arcanologist? If you want to get specific/technical, Arcanologist isn't even the offender here. It's Explosive Runes. Mage secrets were easy to play around as every other secrets out there. It's Explosive Runes that made it tricky. It was moreso problematic when ER was used with ME in the deck, but at least ME doesn't see much play these days. ER is what made testing mage secret a gamble.
But no, Mana Wyrm was still the strong 1 drop regardless.
10/17/2018 02:46 AMPosted by sky3union
What's up with your issue with Arcanologist? If you want to get specific/technical, Arcanologist isn't even the offender here. It's Explosive Runes.

I think Arc is one of the strongest cards in the game. It's just that simple.
in a class that can discover finish, just outright include finish, that goes over the top, cheap meaning 0 1 2 cost minions with aggressive stats are a gigantic problem.

If they happen to draw a card, for a fast deck, that is incredibly overpowered.

Imagine if every class had arc....how would it not see 2x per deck?
Same with Kobold Librarian right?

Arcanologist fuels wyrm...on turn 2...Runes does not draw, Runes is a turn-3 play...and obviously Arc pulls Runes while putting a 2 attack on the board...on turn-2...

Its real simple...play aggro mage without arc and with arc...and see the difference. Drawing is everything in HS...Runes isn't draw...Arcanologist is draw...and develop...on turn-2...something that is so massively overpowered in this game.

Imagine if Shinyfinder was 2 health...or 3....
the only reason Shiny isn't completely busted like Arc is because ping classes / more cards deal with 1 health.

drawing in an aggro deck is critical...drawing and developing on turn 2 with an aggro deck is like...the perfect card the deck wants? the card it draws isn't random..its a 3 mana mana wyrm synergy...it navigates the deck for you...that's what arc does.

I just don't see how putting wyrm down to a 1/2 wouldn't be a great halfway if they don't agree Arcanologist is the fuel for mana wyrm...
I'm pretty convinced at this point that I will be playing this game no longer. Just gonna be playing Artifact or MTG:A. I had a fun time playing this game, but I have no intention to stay in this game anymore with the direction is taking. It baffles my head why would they even nerf a stable TIER 2 card that is not even oppressive and not nerf oppressive classes.
10/17/2018 12:13 AMPosted by Lycaon
10/16/2018 11:28 PMPosted by LuckyOwl
Currently the player base of hearthstone is declining because the meta stale... deck diversity is boring..


What is your source for this info?

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/meta-polarity-and-its-impact-on-hearthstone/
Hmm yet the OP cards like Guldan and co are still untouched...
I don't mind these changes tbh, Avianna definitely needed to be hit and mana wyrm has been op forever , folks have just got used to it!, if they introduced MW as a new card there would be much salt, so probably good changes.

G.I. never really bothered me, but I won't miss it either , so that's a wash for me.

I do think they should have looked at S.P.+U.I., seriously not a fan of these being in wild forever , but we will see, Wild is a more powerful format (that's a good thing) perhaps they are fine.

Wish they would just remove Keleseth from the game, interesting idea , but just not fun to play with in reality.

I actually rather love this idea

10/17/2018 12:17 AMPosted by Shire
On the other hand, I will say I like that genn finally turned on shaman and made their hero power not completely and totally awful (which it otherwise is). Shaman definetly deserved that and it does add to the classes primary game plan in a good way just by making it not suck so bad.

They should remove those two cards but reprint the effects on class specific cards. I know that’s pretty outlandish to say but I think it would make for an elegant solution.


and this could maybe apply to Keleseth as well as Genn and Baku, making them class specific cards would allow them to create cool decks without putting such huge restraints on design space, I really dislike any card that is too strong , it just makes the game revolve around your draw too much, same issue I have with op Planeswalkers in MtG, when a single card in your deck can effectively win the game for you pretty much singlehanded it #FeelsBadMan, nothing wrong with good cards, but they should require synergy with the rest of the deck to work rather than totally dominating the game as soon as they are played.

A card like the Lich King is great, big defensive and offensive body, card advantage, but he can be dealt with, a card like Frost Lich Jaina is not, the continued value accrued is just oppressive, unless you are at death's door when you play her you just win the game, but you can only carry a single copy , so drawing her is hit and miss, not satisfactory gameplay imo from either side of the board.

Very curious to see how this effects the meta, wonder if priest might be good now?
If only there were smart enough to address this before releasing new expansions.
10/17/2018 02:46 AMPosted by sky3union
10/17/2018 01:56 AMPosted by Thorodan
rather see blizz address arcanologist over wyrm.
mana wyrm has been a staple, always has been meta, and didn't always have a turn-2 minion, draw a 3-cost spell, that synergizes with mana wyrm.
What's up with your issue with Arcanologist? If you want to get specific/technical, Arcanologist isn't even the offender here. It's Explosive Runes. Mage secrets were easy to play around as every other secrets out there. It's Explosive Runes that made it tricky. It was moreso problematic when ER was used with ME in the deck, but at least ME doesn't see much play these days. ER is what made testing mage secret a gamble.
But no, Mana Wyrm was still the strong 1 drop regardless.


I dunno, man, 2 mana 2/3 draw a card is really strong. It would definitely still be played just as much if explosive runes was never printed.
10/17/2018 03:51 AMPosted by LuckyOwl
10/17/2018 12:13 AMPosted by Lycaon
...

What is your source for this info?

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/meta-polarity-and-its-impact-on-hearthstone/


You're acting like Moses coming down the mountain and this article is the word of God carved in stone.
10/17/2018 12:07 AMPosted by EriFelvuck
And that's why Baku/Genn was a mistake. While the deck you can build with them are powerful, the actual gameplay is really really boring. Use your hero power a lot.


Id agree that baku/genn were wrong but from different reasons.
My reasoning is that they give a really powerfull and uncounterable effect from the start of the game and therefore not only they create a boring gameplay but they also limit design space for a lot of cards to come.

Using your hero power a lot is not such a bad thing in general (for ex inspire decks)
10/17/2018 05:36 AMPosted by Lyrist
10/17/2018 02:46 AMPosted by sky3union
...What's up with your issue with Arcanologist? If you want to get specific/technical, Arcanologist isn't even the offender here. It's Explosive Runes. Mage secrets were easy to play around as every other secrets out there. It's Explosive Runes that made it tricky. It was moreso problematic when ER was used with ME in the deck, but at least ME doesn't see much play these days. ER is what made testing mage secret a gamble.
But no, Mana Wyrm was still the strong 1 drop regardless.


I dunno, man, 2 mana 2/3 draw a card is really strong. It would definitely still be played just as much if explosive runes was never printed.

It only draws a secret. If there are no good Mage secrets, it won't see play.
Doesn't really matter now because it rotates next April.
10/17/2018 10:32 AMPosted by TumblingDT
10/17/2018 05:36 AMPosted by Lyrist
...

I dunno, man, 2 mana 2/3 draw a card is really strong. It would definitely still be played just as much if explosive runes was never printed.

It only draws a secret. If there are no good Mage secrets, it won't see play.
Doesn't really matter now because it rotates next April.


There have always been good mage secrets. If people weren't playing explosive runes they'd just play mirror entity like they always did before runes. I don't understand how people analyze this game like the last 4 years didn't happen.

>implying wild balance doesn't matter

You're part of the problem.
10/17/2018 10:32 AMPosted by TumblingDT
It only draws a secret. If there are no good Mage secrets, it won't see play.
Doesn't really matter now because it rotates next April.

it thins your deck and lets you draw better cards, also enables some plays; might not matter for standard, but on wild it will still be at large, and all the secret sinergy is out there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz-PtEJEaqY

How blizz chose to balance last patch. True story.

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