Balance Change Speculation Discussion

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Greetings everyone,

Recently we tweeted out about a couple balance changes that are on the way.
"We've been discussing a couple of card balance changes to make next week. We'll have more information to provide on October 15."

As these types of announcements tend to bring on a lot of speculation and discussion, I wanted to consolidate the several threads that have popped up and look to streamline the conversation and avoid multiple new threads. As well, I want to move away from some of the unnecessary comments being made in those threads. Reminder to please remain civil in your posts.

With that said, what do you all feel is going to change? What do you feel needs change? Based on those changes, what do you think will "rise to the top"? Are there any doorways that open once a certain change is made?

Interested to hear what you all think :)

Cheers!
Wild Growth on turn 2 being the strongest play in the game for eternity should probably be thought about a bit.
Im not a standard player, but I do play wild a ton. I FEEL LIKE WILD SHOULD NOT BE LEFT OUT IN POLARITY BALANCE. some cards nerfed I feel would alleviate this:

Aviana
Ressurect mechanic or barnes
coldlight oracle
jade idol

maybe more value or ramp based cards nerfed from druid, as their core is a bit OP.

these cards have little or no counter-play, and adding narrow tech cards to beat them creates too many games where decks will become oversaturated in tech cards, and just be bad against everything else. thus not helping polarity,and possibly making it worse.

with the above cards nerfed renolock might need a DK guldan nerf.

as for decks hurting diversity in aggro I feel gen and baku are a bit warping to wilds aggro options, but I could be wrong.
aluneth is kinda foolish also.

theres alot of foolishness in wild, so long as there is reasonable counterplay, and people dont feel like they've lost the game on turn 1,that would be a nice fix.

I know some of my ideas here may seem stupid to some but they are only ideas, and im just trying to contribute to making my favorite game as fun as it can be.

Whatever you guys do please don't leave out wild in your nerfs, as wild is heading down a bad road, and the has sooo much potential!

Thanks for reading!
Personally I dislike Branching Paths. I think its far to versatile for its cost and isnt taxed for its utility. I know people will compare draw 2 to AI, but AI in bottom 5 is more often than not a dead card, BP isn't - Use it for 12 armor or a permanent Savage Roar instead (yes I know it doesnt hit face like SR, best analogue I could think of). Each option only being available once would take it from a 6-in-1 card to a 3-in-1 card, which I think is more appropriate for a 4M card.
What I would like to see is some changes that make cards better, not worse. I know that when a deck flourishes the first thing that comes in mind is " Nerf hummer this, and this, and this". Why instead of only nerfing cards you don't make cards that barely see the day of standard slightly better? This would give some fresh air in the meta and would help new decks to rise and classes that struggle to do better.
While I think its too late to fix them now since they're all rotating, legendary cards that swing your winrate by 20%+ for playing them on curve should never happen again. These are cards like Keleseth, Kathrena, Professor Brokeheart, Barnes, and some death knights. It just makes games feel pointless when they are entirely decided by an obviously overpowered card being drawn or not drawn on time.
Don't forget about WILD, can be a seriously fun place with a little attention...
Just nerf Gallery Priest is all I ask. The reason is to force Asmodai to play another deck, it's getting old seeing him playing Priest every night for the last month.
10/12/2018 04:41 PMPosted by splintertwin
I FEEL LIKE WILD SHOULD NOT BE LEFT OUT IN POLARITY BALANCE.


Like it or not, wild did it's job the day standard came out. Blizzard essentially removed from the main game a ton of cards for which people paid a lot of money. Wild covers Blizzard with regard to consumer protection laws in the various countries in which they operate. That's the whole purpose of it. By introducing Standard as the 'new' mode, and by telling you things like "Wild is the mode you've always been playing", and "you can still use all your cards just like before", there is no issue of people not being able to use the cards for which they paid and therefore no exposure. Go back and look at the language they used during the transition, and you'll see. They don't care very much about balancing wild because they dislike that they had to do it in the first place.
10/12/2018 04:41 PMPosted by splintertwin
Im not a standard player, but I do play wild a ton. I FEEL LIKE WILD SHOULD NOT BE LEFT OUT IN POLARITY BALANCE. some cards nerfed I feel would alleviate this:

Aviana
Ressurect mechanic or barnes
coldlight oracle
jade idol

maybe more value or ramp based cards nerfed from druid, as their core is a bit OP.

these cards have little or no counter-play, and adding narrow tech cards to beat them creates too many games where decks will become oversaturated in tech cards, and just be bad against everything else. thus not helping polarity,and possibly making it worse.

with the above cards nerfed renolock might need a DK guldan nerf.

as for decks hurting diversity in aggro I feel gen and baku are a bit warping to wilds aggro options, but I could be wrong.
aluneth is kinda foolish also.

theres alot of foolishness in wild, so long as there is reasonable counterplay, and people dont feel like they've lost the game on turn 1,that would be a nice fix.

I know some of my ideas here may seem stupid to some but they are only ideas, and im just trying to contribute to making my favorite game as fun as it can be.

Whatever you guys do please don't leave out wild in your nerfs, as wild is heading down a bad road, and the has sooo much potential!

Thanks for reading!


But you really think that polarity in wild only goes with the top meta decks?

Sorry to pop your bubble but wild is polarized due to having tons of cards and there isn't a real solution to it and despite of that wild still not being a local to be like standard.

I'm all for balancing wild and there is indeed cards that are out of the curve to need balance but i'm not want a clone of standard on it.

Or you really think that there will never be specialized decks at high power at wild? What should be did when they start to born due to the hate tools acumulation?

Just kill then so no one can actually reach a deckbuild goal of a specialized deck in mode that is designed for you to have the most possibilities you can in deckbuild?

Sorry but players deserve a local were they can really play the way they want even if someone will not like to play against. I'm all for nerf wild overpowered decks like star aligner druid but no reasonable player or dev can be against wild develop to directions that standard will never be able to go.
I think The Druid Class should get a very long look at. Wild growth, nourish, Ultimate Infestation, Branching Paths, Spreading Plague is too much. Maybe alterations to some of those cards...

Crystal Core is a card i think a lot of people are unhappy with (Sonya is a problem there as well). While it may not show up in the win % column - it is a card that is bad for morale. Maybe take the card in a different direction? Give Quest Rogue a new reward.

Giggling Inventor - while the card doesn't bother me as much.... it is extremely popular and frustrating to a large number of players. bumping it's cost up 1 mana might not be the worst thing in the world.

ps.
Wild Cards need a new format. Wild format itself is just... too much.
10/12/2018 04:47 PMPosted by Bowser
Personally I dislike Branching Paths. I think its far to versatile for its cost and isnt taxed for its utility. I know people will compare draw 2 to AI, but AI in bottom 5 is more often than not a dead card, BP isn't - Use it for 12 armor or a permanent Savage Roar instead (yes I know it doesnt hit face like SR, best analogue I could think of). Each option only being available once would take it from a 6-in-1 card to a 3-in-1 card, which I think is more appropriate for a 4M card.


The problem with branching paths is it is a Druid only card. It enables multiple types of strong decks and requires decision making. I'd like to see more cards like it for all classes.

What I don't want is more weak cards without any use. Make more counter, delay, draw cards etc. Give fringe cards some utility so we have some variety and people feel investing in card packs is worth it.

I've been playing for awhile and I have not agreed with many of the previous nerfs. Cards get changed now, and then next expansion there is something even more powerful released.
I actually don't think the current expansions need to be messed with.

Instead, I want the developers to push the reset button on the Classic set.
I'm super curious about what the changes are. 15/10 can't come soon enough.
Branching paths isn't as overpowered and flexible as people make it out to be. Minion buff and draw card are both over-costed and cause the flexibility of the card to have a price. Armor is comparable healing potion. A deck that includes this card usually does so for one use and will very rarely pick any other option.

Token druid could use a nerf, but I'm not sure what exactly. It is a problem when I go full aoe warlock, and that still isn't enough to combat the endless tokens.

Giggling inventor in particular could use a nerf, maybe mana cost increase by 1. Right now it is too good at protecting board and face. It really sets up token decks with an automatic wider spread and board protection, which makes it an ideal candidate for nerfing token decks.
To address the topic, I feel that it's most likely that "a couple" refers to Giggling Inventor for Standard and Juicy Psychmelon for Wild. :P

Team 5 seems to prefer nerfing cards by raising their cost; as such, assuming these are correct, I expect the former to be bumped up to 6 (which also restricts it from Baku decks) and the latter to be bumped up to 6 (or 7, if they just want to obliterate the card).

10/12/2018 04:47 PMPosted by Bowser
Personally I dislike Branching Paths. I think its far to versatile for its cost and isnt taxed for its utility. I know people will compare draw 2 to AI, but AI in bottom 5 is more often than not a dead card, BP isn't - Use it for 12 armor or a permanent Savage Roar instead (yes I know it doesnt hit face like SR, best analogue I could think of). Each option only being available once would take it from a 6-in-1 card to a 3-in-1 card, which I think is more appropriate for a 4M card.

It is taxed for its utility by its cost of 4 Mana. The reason for versatility is that a card is never useless and rarely outright bad; but in exchange, the card is overcosted, or the stats for a minion are vanilla or lower or else vulnerable to Silence. That is so with Branching Paths: regardless of the selected combination, one is paying a premium, with the possible exception of choosing the Armor twice.

I agree that the Armor gain should be reduced (to 4 or 5 instead of 6; certainly not to 3 or lower as often suggested); but I daresay much more powerful cards have escaped nerfs, and many of them have been Neutral and consequently problematic in many more decks.

In any case, changing Choose Twice to Choose Two would utterly destroy the card. The general "best" option would be a much worse Shield Block, which is bad for any class except maybe Rogue or Hunter, but particularly so for Warrior (for obvious reasons) or Druid (the class with Ferocious Howl).
Barnes and Keleseth I really hope are being looked at... Same with UI and Spreading Plague. Those are high hopes though!!! Same with Baku and its impact on variance in games.
And I will throw out the whole we need to fix the classic set routine because for the game to go forward the classic set has to be revised.....

As for changes I think will happen..

Phyc Melon will be changed
Possibly Aviana will be changed but if Melon is changed I doubt they would double nerf Druid.
Giggling will have its mana cost increased by 1
Sonya will be changed instead of nerfing the Rogue Quest for a third time

Cant see other changes but they will probably throw a curve ball and surprise us.
Both kingsbane and Rogue Quest are removed, players owning 1 will be given 2400 dust, while players owning both will be compensated with 4200 dust.

They will have the new rogue quest in their collection if they owned 1, or both.

The caverns below.

1 mana spell

Quest: Play 6 weapon buffs

Reward:

Kinsbane

4 mana 0/4 weapon.

‘Has all weapon buffs you have played this game. Cannot be enchanted, or destroyed by opponents cards’

I could have fun with that still. It’s also 2 birds 1 stone for all the people complaining about QR and Kingsbane.

And I get heaps of dust. It’s a win win.
10/12/2018 06:13 PMPosted by Phobetor
In any case, changing Choose Twice to Choose Two would utterly destroy the card. The general "best" option would be a much worse Shield Block, which is bad for any class except maybe Rogue or Hunter, but particularly so for Warrior (for obvious reasons) or Druid (the class with Ferocious Howl)


I respectfully disagree. Even with Choose Two its a better draw in the late game than Shield Block is, because you dont want to be getting yourself closer to fatigue in the current meta. Paths gives you the UTILITY that no matter what point in the game you play/draw it on its ALWAYS going to be a playable card. SB isnt, much like AI isnt.

So, +1M for +1 Armor is fair imo given the flexibility the card has sounds fair to me. SB will always draw and add 5 armor, even with only 3 (6) options it will be just fine compared to the 6 (9) it currently has, and will see play. It really is the most versatile card in the game atm (imo), and should certainly be at least considered for re-balancing.
You must re-balance Hearthstone and shake up the meta so your customers don't get too bored and unhappy with your game.

You roll a 1.

Hex now costs 6 mana and Gorehowl starts with 4 attack.

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