Balance Change Speculation Discussion

Play Mode Discussion
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Just change all my extra golden epics please :D UI, for example.
Maybe change the wording on spectral cutlass and tess greymane so they aren't instantly garbage when playing against another rogue. Something along the line of "replay every card that didn't start in your deck that you played". A nerf to the health of the scarabs created by spreading plague, I'd prefer if it they became 1/3 but I'd settle for 1/4 . A nerf to branching path so you can't choose they same path twice or a mana increase. Tone down the damage on explosive runes. Increase shudderwock to 10 mana. Increase aviana to 10 mana so at least druid has to throw in inervate. I'd be happy with just a change on spectral cutlass and tess honestly.
Druid is the ONLY CLASS THAT GRANTS PLAYERS RELEVANT GAME CHOICES.

That in itself is a problem.

I would say "hey, give other classes this luxury and everything would be fine," but in all honesty, it wouldn't be. Guess why?

VOTE ON YOUR PHONES NOW

It's because Blizzard ISN'T able to actually balance the classes fairly for any given distinct metagame. They CANNOT or at least WILL not.

As metagames and strategies bleed together (as they have with token druid), think about WHAT needs to be nerfed.

And honestly, if this class having ramp being exclusive to it wasn't a thing, this issue would not exist.

Druid is an inherent problem. It needs such a huge nerf that "nerfing it into the ground" would still keep it very strong.

Sources: Black Lotus in Magic: the Gathering; Ancestral Recall, Magic: the Gathering; everything else Druid does that should never be so linear as well as powerful.
Leave giggling inventor alone.

Fix the 20 copies of overpowered cards you can have on the board at once.

I'm looking at the fact that I killed Malygos 12 times already and you just keep resurrecting him craptastic priest.

Along with only being allowed to have 1 copy of a Legendary in your deck, you should only be allowed to PLAY it once. No copies, no resurrects, no duplicating or discovering.
10/12/2018 05:57 PMPosted by TheRiddler
I actually don't think the current expansions need to be messed with.

Instead, I want the developers to push the reset button on the Classic set.


Agree.

I was looking at the cards that will be rotating out and there are some strong staple cards that will be missed.

Substitutes need to be added to classic.

Righteous Protector for example. Think of a better 1 drop for Pally? can you?

What will take its place?

Priest has northshire cleric for eternity, why?

Look at classic and basic please.

All the good cards can not simply go to trash wild.
"Balance" is not a concept that can be usefully applied to Hearthstone in its current state, so calling the upcoming changes a balance patch is disingenuous.

What changed from a couple weeks ago when all was good, and no changes were deemed necessary? The statistical win-rates that some people worship haven't changed since then. Was it the release of Meta Polarity and its Impact on Hearthstone? Does Vicious Syndicate have that much power? Why? The report merely confirmed a few things that anyone who plays the game already knew.

Player agency is at an all-time low because the power of certain cards is at an all-time high. Decisions are lost in the glare of spectacular cards. "I'm making all these small decisions, but none of that matters compared to whether my opponent drew his Death Knight or not" -- Zalae. (Possibly a slight paraphrase, it's been a while).

"Infinite value, infinite life and infinite damage are dangerous. Mechanics that nullify the importance of card advantage or life as a resource often become degenerate, polarizing and lacking counterplay. It started with Jade Idol and escalated with Death Knights and Baku." -- The aforementioned VS report.

How can a "balance patch" that might bump the cost of Giggling Inventor by one possibly address any of this? The only thing that might answer would be sending the Death Knights, the Quests, Carnivorous Cube, Shudderwok and Genn and Baku to the Hall of Fame - or, in other words, rescinding the Year of the Mammoth.
10/13/2018 10:56 AMPosted by Truper
"Balance" is not a concept that can be usefully applied to Hearthstone in its current state, so calling the upcoming changes a balance patch is disingenuous.

What changed from a couple weeks ago when all was good, and no changes were deemed necessary? The statistical win-rates that some people worship haven't changed since then. Was it the release of Meta Polarity and its Impact on Hearthstone? Does Vicious Syndicate have that much power? Why? The report merely confirmed a few things that anyone who plays the game already knew.

Player agency is at an all-time low because the power of certain cards is at an all-time high. Decisions are lost in the glare of spectacular cards. "I'm making all these small decisions, but none of that matters compared to whether my opponent drew his Death Knight or not" -- Zalae. (Possibly a slight paraphrase, it's been a while).

"Infinite value, infinite life and infinite damage are dangerous. Mechanics that nullify the importance of card advantage or life as a resource often become degenerate, polarizing and lacking counterplay. It started with Jade Idol and escalated with Death Knights and Baku." -- The aforementioned VS report.

How can a "balance patch" that might bump the cost of Giggling Inventor by one possibly address any of this? The only thing that might answer would be sending the Death Knights, the Quests, Carnivorous Cube, Shudderwok and Genn and Baku to the Hall of Fame - or, in other words, rescinding the Year of the Mammoth.
This post is incredibly spot on, we need a re haul not just a couple touches.
10/12/2018 04:41 PMPosted by splintertwin
Im not a standard player, but I do play wild a ton. I FEEL LIKE WILD SHOULD NOT BE LEFT OUT IN POLARITY BALANCE. some cards nerfed I feel would alleviate this:

Aviana
Ressurect mechanic or barnes
coldlight oracle
jade idol

maybe more value or ramp based cards nerfed from druid, as their core is a bit OP.

these cards have little or no counter-play, and adding narrow tech cards to beat them creates too many games where decks will become oversaturated in tech cards, and just be bad against everything else. thus not helping polarity,and possibly making it worse.

with the above cards nerfed renolock might need a DK guldan nerf.

as for decks hurting diversity in aggro I feel gen and baku are a bit warping to wilds aggro options, but I could be wrong.
aluneth is kinda foolish also.

theres alot of foolishness in wild, so long as there is reasonable counterplay, and people dont feel like they've lost the game on turn 1,that would be a nice fix.

I know some of my ideas here may seem stupid to some but they are only ideas, and im just trying to contribute to making my favorite game as fun as it can be.

Whatever you guys do please don't leave out wild in your nerfs, as wild is heading down a bad road, and the has sooo much potential!

Thanks for reading!


Best post ever. Thanks for remembering that Wild is a very important mode for many players and it MUST be fixed. Every card you listed needs attention or outright deletion. Tired of 4-5 cards ruining wild mode. Of course, you cant count on people to "man up" and play normal decks that arent broken so Blizzard must take action.

You are 100% correct too that to beat any decks that use those cards you must severely handicap your deck to include a bunch of crappy tech cards that dont even gaurantee they'll help or be drawn on time. It simply shouldnt be this way. Of course, against "normal" decks you end up with a handful of useless tech cards and are gauranteed to lose all the games not against the cancer decks. Bad. Just bad.

Im keeping my fingers crossed that they'll do the RIGHT thing here and nerf/eliminate those cards. Please...for all thats good in the world.... please do something.
I find it infinitely fascinating how if you suggest nerfs to a class that is universally considered to be meta warping, OP, and annoying/unfun to play against, like Cubelock was and druid is now, you are guaranteed to get DV'd by the people who cling to class because literally represents the only winning set they have going on in their collection. While this is understandable, what's even more facinating is that usually they themselves will admit to the sets being unfun, OP, and meta warping, but they'll defend it to the last anyway.

Just an observation, and is amusingly reminding me of forum posts pre-cubelock nerfs.
Rework all infinite value cards, like Jade Idol, and nerf exodia decks back to meme tier.

Make this game about resource management again, as it worked best in the past. This way of thinking is completely gone, and it was the most fun aspect of HS...
10/13/2018 12:47 PMPosted by DonGiovanni
Rework all infinite value cards, like Jade Idol, and nerf exodia decks back to meme tier.

Make this game about resource management again, as it worked best in the past. This way of thinking is completely gone, and it was the most fun aspect of HS...


Do you know that means nerfing almost all the cards and decks don't you?

Also it means tone down baku warrior and big spell mage that are balanced around the fact that exodia and infinite value decks exist.

I'm would say by what you want and the balances implication of it that you want something around 80% of the relevant cards nerfed to never see play again.
[quote="207682684386"]Do you know that means nerfing almost all the cards and decks don't you.

Also it means tone down baku warrior and big spell mage that are balanced around the fact that exodia and infinite value decks exist.

I'm would say by what you want and the balances implication of it that you want something around 80% of the relevant cards nerfed to never see play again.


Here here. Most of the people who demand this kind of 'reworking' would be satisfied by a third game mode, which was heavily restricted in the cards/sets one could use.

To me that seems to be the only viable solution, short of the kind of nerfageddon, total reset stuff some are suggesting on this thread. The ones that really get me are those calling for certain cards or mechanics to be removed from the game entirely.

Some people just want to go way too far with this stuff. Not to get too political, but they remind me of extremists on both sides of the spectrum. The "I/we don't like it, so it should be banned for everyone, forever" mindset. It makes me sad.
please nerf all druid epics so I can have a full refund on them c:
10/13/2018 01:19 PMPosted by NightRaven
The "I/we don't like it, so it should be banned for everyone, forever" mindset. It makes me sad.


there is a lot of that in these forums

thats probably why most of the posts in this thread so far arent about balancing

there are many agaisnt balancing cards too
is easy to tell who they are
they are the ones who always make threads claiming the nerfs did nothing because they didnt make the cards /decks unplayable ( and thats what they always ask for in threads like this one )
10/13/2018 01:07 PMPosted by minami
10/13/2018 12:47 PMPosted by DonGiovanni
Rework all infinite value cards, like Jade Idol, and nerf exodia decks back to meme tier.

Make this game about resource management again, as it worked best in the past. This way of thinking is completely gone, and it was the most fun aspect of HS...


Do you know that means nerfing almost all the cards and decks don't you.

Also it means tone down baku warrior and big spell mage that are balanced around the fact that exodia and infinite value decks exist.

I'm would say by what you want and the balances implication of it that you want something around 80% of the relevant cards nerfed to never see play again.


Yeah, i know. The game is in a problematic state rn. The meta is not the worst by far, but it's riddled with unfixable problems, like prevalence of infinite value, numerous bs exodia decks, and baku decks. The only way to fix this mess imo is to introduce a huge rework.
Jesse, from my somewhat recent time playing hs since lk this thread gives me hope for the direction of the game and shows care for game.

All i really wanna say without going over the top is, if you impliment a mechanic please ensure its viability to be competitive in the current climb. I really do cite magnetic and many of the Echos like sound the bells.

I'm a paladin freak. I love my ret in wow, played him since cata and when i came to hs during kotft i adored the idea of ebon uther and all the potential paladin decks. The only viable paladin decks since than were all aggro with either murloc or token variations with a barely break even otk ebon or a pretty average barebone control.

Thank you for reaching out to the community for our feedback. It's pretty nice to know we're not being ignored :)
10/13/2018 09:22 AMPosted by Paf
10/12/2018 05:57 PMPosted by TheRiddler
I actually don't think the current expansions need to be messed with.

Instead, I want the developers to push the reset button on the Classic set.


Agree.

I was looking at the cards that will be rotating out and there are some strong staple cards that will be missed.

Substitutes need to be added to classic.

Righteous Protector for example. Think of a better 1 drop for Pally? can you?

What will take its place?

Priest has northshire cleric for eternity, why?

Look at classic and basic please.

All the good cards can not simply go to trash wild.


Priest has Northshire Cleric because everything else in their basic and classic sets are trash.
10/13/2018 03:15 PMPosted by Lutorius
10/13/2018 09:22 AMPosted by Paf
...

Agree.

I was looking at the cards that will be rotating out and there are some strong staple cards that will be missed.

Substitutes need to be added to classic.

Righteous Protector for example. Think of a better 1 drop for Pally? can you?

What will take its place?

Priest has northshire cleric for eternity, why?

Look at classic and basic please.

All the good cards can not simply go to trash wild.


Priest has Northshire Cleric because everything else in their basic and classic sets are trash.


just to note for hopeful future consideration by devs, justifications like this is what hampers balance as these cards are forced to be core for many decks simple because they'll be in a league of their own

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