Rhastakhan’s is a well designed disappointment

Play Mode Discussion
That’s it. The new cards are fun, have interesting concepts and synergies, but are simply incomplete packages and/or overpriced for the effect.

Of course we will argue, we don’t want to give anything else that’s strong to odd warrior, odd pally...that’s ok. I agree. But we will not see odd pally play the 25 mana tiger, we will not see odd warrior play many small non-mech cards.

So it is disappointing to see that crucial new cards are either too expensive to work, or too weak to fit in, when it could have been easily done. As a result, the only good (old) new deck is spell hunter for obvious reasons. Maybe rush warrior. RR is simply not very exciting in practice.

E.g. Warrior. We could have given Voone vanilla stats 4/5 for 4 mana. The battle cry is so slow that it is not an issue.

Rogue. There is a lack of good pirates with solid stats, just something to hold the board in standard. The 5/7 epic could have been a pirate, so that is a missed opportunity. I do not know what the ‘spirit’ card synergies with atm.

Shaman. I like Zentimo and I like Spirit Frog. Unfortunately the best card they got is Likkim. There are too few good targetable spells for Zentimo. I don’t want to play crap like avalanche or wind fury to make the most out of him. Same for spirit frog, the Thunderhead Aggro list is fun to play but simply not good enough due to a lack of holding minions. The 3/3 panda and 2/1 common are UTTER CRAP! They could have been better statted since it is unlikely that existing archetypes will use them. Not to mention the anti synergy between overload spells and kragwa.

Druid: Gonk and the spirit could have been non meme cards. Too bad nothing except pounce was printed to support it. This is surprising since none of the old archetypes would ever use Gonk. It has actually become bad design where Gonk is used to OTK minion based opponents. I would prefer if Gonk was not a gimmick but encouraged smart trading.

And many other things which I do not have the patience to list, but you can imagine for yourself...
I don't want to say I told you, all of you, so but... I told you so: RR wasn't gonna change things -there are 3 cards that may be an exception, but 3 out of 135 is laughable
Everyone knew this expansion wasn't going to be fierce competition to Knights or Kobolds - those expansions had an exceedingly high power level.

This is how power-creep gets reset; lower power level expansions which won't be felt much until the rotation. I find it interesting how people complain about powercreep, but also complain about the methods used to combat powercreep.
Rotation is coming...
Every expansion has good 'ideas.' But making a game of ideas only works if you have the dedication to making your game as good as it can be, and these devs don't care AT ALL about balancing the game.

But you are right, these cards are over-expensive. Granted I play Priest and 80% of their cards in general are over-expensive. These devs could drop the cost of Priest cards by 1 across the board and the class would still be unplayable in the face of the snowballing trash they put out.

And that's not going to change. The devs do intend SOMETHING to change expansion to expansion. To do that you have to powercreep. There may be less powercreeping going on but it's still there. We'll still have shutterwok. Pretty much the entire hunter package. Shaman is going to be insane with all the direct spell damage they have.
12/14/2018 10:39 PMPosted by Cemarz
Every expansion has good 'ideas.' But making a game of ideas only works if you have the dedication to making your game as good as it can be, and these devs don't care AT ALL about balancing the game.

But you are right, these cards are over-expensive. Granted I play Priest and 80% of their cards in general are over-expensive. These devs could drop the cost of Priest cards by 1 across the board and the class would still be unplayable in the face of the snowballing trash they put out.

And that's not going to change. The devs do intend SOMETHING to change expansion to expansion. To do that you have to powercreep. There may be less powercreeping going on but it's still there. We'll still have shutterwok. Pretty much the entire hunter package. Shaman is going to be insane with all the direct spell damage they have.


Power creep? Overcosted cards?

How on Earth are those two together?

BTW, Hunter plays very few RR cards. This is not a K&C like situation where Warlock created a brand new OP as can be Cubelock using 13 (counting the second copy) new cards. In fact, the Spell and Secret Hunter decks use more cards from that expansion than from RR.
12/14/2018 10:57 PMPosted by Marcoscongas
12/14/2018 10:39 PMPosted by Cemarz
Every expansion has good 'ideas.' But making a game of ideas only works if you have the dedication to making your game as good as it can be, and these devs don't care AT ALL about balancing the game.

But you are right, these cards are over-expensive. Granted I play Priest and 80% of their cards in general are over-expensive. These devs could drop the cost of Priest cards by 1 across the board and the class would still be unplayable in the face of the snowballing trash they put out.

And that's not going to change. The devs do intend SOMETHING to change expansion to expansion. To do that you have to powercreep. There may be less powercreeping going on but it's still there. We'll still have shutterwok. Pretty much the entire hunter package. Shaman is going to be insane with all the direct spell damage they have.


Power creep? Overcosted cards?

How on Earth are those two together?


Because if they cost less they’d be power creep. They don’t, deliberately.

The best example is Arcanosaur. You compare it to Duskbreaker and say “that’s awful.” No, Duskbreaker is overpowered, and probably itself should have cost 6.
12/14/2018 11:29 PMPosted by Mand
12/14/2018 10:57 PMPosted by Marcoscongas
...

Power creep? Overcosted cards?

How on Earth are those two together?


Because if they cost less they’d be power creep. They don’t, deliberately.

The best example is Arcanosaur. You compare it to Duskbreaker and say “that’s awful.” No, Duskbreaker is overpowered, and probably itself should have cost 6.


This.. people are comparing the new cards with overpowering old cards...

You clearly see they are resetting the power creep. And thats good..

Just remember that rotation when its over.. you will be comparing to ww booms and rr..

Just for fun.

https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1217122-500-legend-complete-odd-paladin-guide

Look how many cards it use that will be gone in april...

Same for
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1216173-top-200-aggro-beast-hunter

He means 84% most hated deck
...
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1214917-84-wr-kingsbane-pirate-rogue

So be happy they do a reset.. means the devs know what need to be done. And do it in the least horrible way.. the just nerf some cards and keep bringing out OP stuff..
12/14/2018 08:50 PMPosted by FrostyFeet
Everyone knew this expansion wasn't going to be fierce competition to Knights or Kobolds - those expansions had an exceedingly high power level.

This is how power-creep gets reset; lower power level expansions which won't be felt much until the rotation. I find it interesting how people complain about powercreep, but also complain about the methods used to combat powercreep.


It would truly be powercreep if RR buffed existing T1 decks further or introduced cards that could be used to make totally new T1 decks. That is not what anyone is asking for.

We want cards that can be used to improve existing t3 decks to t2 level, or new archetypes at that power level. Notice how almost none of the Loas or Loa beasts synergies with boomsday decks. There is no reason why they should suck.
HSTONE needs to rotate out DKs and the Baku BS immediately, otherwise it'll never be viable unless they create RIDICULOUS OP cards (of which none are in the expac)
Nah. You're missing the point.

The problem isn't that Rastakhan's cards are too weak.

It's that the power level of KoFT/KnC is too high to keep up with. Otherwise, you would have insane power creep.

Just hold out until the rotation. Then the last three expansions will have their time to shine.
I think this set is better than Boomsday and the class cards seem (for me), to gel better with one another and have a definitive theme to it. You can easily tell what Warlock is trying to do for example. It's either Discard Lock or a continuation of Zoo Lock with the buff cards. Warrior is either Dragon Warrior or Overkill/Rush Warrior etc.

Thematically, I like Rastakhan the best out of the other sets this year and how the developers were pushing for each of the classes to be it's own thing, right down to the spirits, loa and class battles in the solo adventure.
No power creep == disappointment.
Power creep == frustration
12/14/2018 11:50 PMPosted by Delfunk
12/14/2018 11:29 PMPosted by Mand
...

Because if they cost less they’d be power creep. They don’t, deliberately.

The best example is Arcanosaur. You compare it to Duskbreaker and say “that’s awful.” No, Duskbreaker is overpowered, and probably itself should have cost 6.


This.. people are comparing the new cards with overpowering old cards...

You clearly see they are resetting the power creep. And thats good..

Just remember that rotation when its over.. you will be comparing to ww booms and rr..

Just for fun.

https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1217122-500-legend-complete-odd-paladin-guide

Look how many cards it use that will be gone in april...

Same for
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1216173-top-200-aggro-beast-hunter

He means 84% most hated deck
...
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1214917-84-wr-kingsbane-pirate-rogue

So be happy they do a reset.. means the devs know what need to be done. And do it in the least horrible way.. the just nerf some cards and keep bringing out OP stuff..


The issue with Arcanosaur is its Elemental requirement makes it terribly awkward.

I have to know that I want to board clear one turn ahead of time and play a minion that turn that will get blasted by it. What others have said is that just like the Murloc makes other Murlocs immune to its AOE so should Arcanosaur for Elementals (at least Elementals played the previous turn), or it should be synergy free.

I am 100% looking forward to April. I have over 10k dust and disappointed there’s almost nothing for ranked that doesn’t require me to invest more on Mammoth cards.
12/15/2018 06:17 AMPosted by Marcoscongas
12/14/2018 11:50 PMPosted by Delfunk
...

This.. people are comparing the new cards with overpowering old cards...

You clearly see they are resetting the power creep. And thats good..

Just remember that rotation when its over.. you will be comparing to ww booms and rr..

Just for fun.

https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1217122-500-legend-complete-odd-paladin-guide

Look how many cards it use that will be gone in april...

Same for
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1216173-top-200-aggro-beast-hunter

He means 84% most hated deck
...
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1214917-84-wr-kingsbane-pirate-rogue

So be happy they do a reset.. means the devs know what need to be done. And do it in the least horrible way.. the just nerf some cards and keep bringing out OP stuff..


The issue with Arcanosaur is its Elemental requirement makes it terribly awkward.

I have to know that I want to board clear one turn ahead of time and play a minion that turn that will get blasted by it. What others have said is that just like the Murloc makes other Murlocs immune to its AOE so should Arcanosaur for Elementals (at least Elementals played the previous turn), or it should be synergy free.

I am 100% looking forward to April. I have over 10k dust and disappointed there’s almost nothing for ranked that doesn’t require me to invest more on Mammoth cards.


10k dust! Nice man!! Have to admit have zero dust.. but 700 gold.. started to save gold almost immediately after RR.. will buy a prebundle bundle but hope ill have enough gold to only need to do that.
12/14/2018 10:57 PMPosted by Marcoscongas
12/14/2018 10:39 PMPosted by Cemarz
Every expansion has good 'ideas.' But making a game of ideas only works if you have the dedication to making your game as good as it can be, and these devs don't care AT ALL about balancing the game.

But you are right, these cards are over-expensive. Granted I play Priest and 80% of their cards in general are over-expensive. These devs could drop the cost of Priest cards by 1 across the board and the class would still be unplayable in the face of the snowballing trash they put out.

And that's not going to change. The devs do intend SOMETHING to change expansion to expansion. To do that you have to powercreep. There may be less powercreeping going on but it's still there. We'll still have shutterwok. Pretty much the entire hunter package. Shaman is going to be insane with all the direct spell damage they have.


Power creep? Overcosted cards?

How on Earth are those two together?

[/quote]

How exactly did you read that and think that I was implying that the overcost cards were the op cards?
12/14/2018 11:50 PMPosted by Delfunk
12/14/2018 11:29 PMPosted by Mand
...

Because if they cost less they’d be power creep. They don’t, deliberately.

The best example is Arcanosaur. You compare it to Duskbreaker and say “that’s awful.” No, Duskbreaker is overpowered, and probably itself should have cost 6.


This.. people are comparing the new cards with overpowering old cards...

You clearly see they are resetting the power creep. And thats good..

Just remember that rotation when its over.. you will be comparing to ww booms and rr..

Just for fun.

https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1217122-500-legend-complete-odd-paladin-guide

Look how many cards it use that will be gone in april...

Same for
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1216173-top-200-aggro-beast-hunter

He means 84% most hated deck
...
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1214917-84-wr-kingsbane-pirate-rogue

So be happy they do a reset.. means the devs know what need to be done. And do it in the least horrible way.. the just nerf some cards and keep bringing out OP stuff..


The rotation isn't going to magically make the game better to play. The same lack of balance and power level gap exists within the sets released this year. Some classes got the shaft, some got a few super strong cards. That's really all that matters.
12/14/2018 11:29 PMPosted by Mand
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Power creep? Overcosted cards?

How on Earth are those two together?


Because if they cost less they’d be power creep. They don’t, deliberately.

The best example is Arcanosaur. You compare it to Duskbreaker and say “that’s awful.” No, Duskbreaker is overpowered, and probably itself should have cost 6.


That's no excuse for

Not adding a Hard Armor cap
Not adding strip weapon enchantment spells and minions
Battlcry counter minions like a mindbreaker or reverse battlecry's played last round

Not adding card draw punishing minions like Daring Reporter
Not adding combo punishers like Dirty Rat

While you guys are stuck on up and down power lvls like this is a ladder, the game needs to go sideways, with counter cards and more tech options.
12/15/2018 06:32 AMPosted by Cemarz
12/14/2018 11:50 PMPosted by Delfunk
...

This.. people are comparing the new cards with overpowering old cards...

You clearly see they are resetting the power creep. And thats good..

Just remember that rotation when its over.. you will be comparing to ww booms and rr..

Just for fun.

https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1217122-500-legend-complete-odd-paladin-guide

Look how many cards it use that will be gone in april...

Same for
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1216173-top-200-aggro-beast-hunter

He means 84% most hated deck
...
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1214917-84-wr-kingsbane-pirate-rogue

So be happy they do a reset.. means the devs know what need to be done. And do it in the least horrible way.. the just nerf some cards and keep bringing out OP stuff..


The rotation isn't going to magically make the game better to play. The same lack of balance and power level gap exists within the sets released this year. Some classes got the shaft, some got a few super strong cards. That's really all that matters.


Never stated it will be magically be top notch after the rotation.. just saying they are doing a less power creep route.. thats all..

What is it today and people state things i didnt stated...
12/15/2018 01:16 AMPosted by Swift
Nah. You're missing the point.

The problem isn't that Rastakhan's cards are too weak.

It's that the power level of KoFT/KnC is too high to keep up with. Otherwise, you would have insane power creep.

Just hold out until the rotation. Then the last three expansions will have their time to shine.


There is a middle ground between KoFT+KnC and the last 2 expansions.

Un'goro is a perfectly reasonable expansion. There is no reason why they couldn't print cards at that powerlevel.

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