Possible anti-Kingsbane card idea?

Play Mode Discussion
12/17/2018 05:19 PMPosted by DoctorFart
12/17/2018 02:02 PMPosted by Wyman
I clicked on this more for the OP's username. Dr. Fart just makes me laugh
:-)

What would his specialty be? The obvious thought is a proctologist.


Irritable bowel syndrome is no joke, sonny.


Heh, very true, friend. But I believe your username is, though :-P
12/17/2018 06:13 AMPosted by Pißwasser
Why not a minion with a Battlecry: Equip a Copy of a Weapon that the enemy Hero has equipped or, copy a Weapon in your opponents deck, add it to your hand.
Fighting fire with fire leaves both men blind. This doesn’t solve any problems I’m sorry.
That just gives both players access to an infinite weapon. What do you think will happen after
Both players whack each other while 1 player can continue to buff it while the other can’t. Slowest played out losses the games ever had

Having a battle cry get rid of an enchantment will do absolutely nothing either. Unless the card says “remove lifesteal from a weapon” the card has 0 use at all.
What’s taking 2 attack away from a 8/3 weapon with Valera and even more weapon buffs added since the release of RR going to do?
Absolutely nothing
Just make an Ooze that silences and breaks a weapon, there are enough weapon deathrattles at this point to enable it.
12/17/2018 06:40 PMPosted by OilyWarlock
Just make an Ooze that silences and breaks a weapon, there are enough weapon deathrattles at this point to enable it.


...

Yet another instawin suggestion.

AND another one that pushes other weapons away.

Yes, let's antagonize deathrattle rogue. And rush warrior. And God knows what else. It's totally fine to murder their spikes to hit kingsbane.

And always beat it. Not "increase your chance to win". Always beat it. Silence ends the game.

Which is awfully churlish since it wasn't ever just instantly ending the game against you. It took well past turn 10 to assemble it to max.

Any instawin card is going to be drawn...it has all the time in the world to be drawn.

Yeesh. Can we get one suggestion that doesn't ruin the entire game for every weapon ever? Surely you guys can dial it back a little.
Rust Monster, 4 mana 4/3. Battlecry - Change your opponents weapons attack to 1.

Clairvoyance, 2 mana priest epic spell. Discover a copy of a card in your opponents deck.

Warping Ooze, 6 mana 6/4. Battlecry - Silence and then destroy your opponents weapon

Void Entity, 5 mana 5/5 epic neutral. Immune to weapons
12/17/2018 08:54 AMPosted by Gishgeron
Dear God, these suggestions are insane.

First: Others have already mentioned that the initial idea would be broken beyond belief. That doesnt counter kingsbane, it removes all weapons from the game permanently.

Second: Both the Ooze idea and the copy ideal are entirely too much. Obviously because they're one card answers to an entire deck of cards being played, but also because they negatively impact...again...all other strong weapons in the game (which already have a hard time seeing play).

I want to steer you all toward solutions that dont just instantly win the game. That's not good gameplay, and it's not good tech. Cards that behave more like glacial shard....its not instantly beating the rogue but it is good tech for them because it can be held for a stage of the game where the weapon is over the top to buy you the handful of turns needed to win.

Let's move away from broken one shot hate cards.


You mean like when you put some taunts on the field and try to develop your board and Rogue just play Sap or Vanish and hit you in the Face again. When you copy Kingsbane, it doesn't mean that you instantly win the game.
12/17/2018 08:38 PMPosted by Gishgeron
12/17/2018 06:40 PMPosted by OilyWarlock
Just make an Ooze that silences and breaks a weapon, there are enough weapon deathrattles at this point to enable it.


...

Yet another instawin suggestion.

AND another one that pushes other weapons away.

Yes, let's antagonize deathrattle rogue. And rush warrior. And God knows what else. It's totally fine to murder their spikes to hit kingsbane.

And always beat it. Not "increase your chance to win". Always beat it. Silence ends the game.

Which is awfully churlish since it wasn't ever just instantly ending the game against you. It took well past turn 10 to assemble it to max.

Any instawin card is going to be drawn...it has all the time in the world to be drawn.

Yeesh. Can we get one suggestion that doesn't ruin the entire game for every weapon ever? Surely you guys can dial it back a little.


How does it entirely ruin the game for every Weapon, when you copy it.
When I copy a Truesilver Champion, it's not the end for Paladin. When I copy Kingsbane it's not the end for Rogue, because they have Vanish and Sap, enough cards to draw Kingdbane from their Deck and can double their Weapon buff Cards with the DK. So please stop whining.
12/17/2018 08:54 AMPosted by Gishgeron
Dear God, these suggestions are insane.

First: Others have already mentioned that the initial idea would be broken beyond belief. That doesnt counter kingsbane, it removes all weapons from the game permanently.

Second: Both the Ooze idea and the copy ideal are entirely too much. Obviously because they're one card answers to an entire deck of cards being played, but also because they negatively impact...again...all other strong weapons in the game (which already have a hard time seeing play).

I want to steer you all toward solutions that dont just instantly win the game. That's not good gameplay, and it's not good tech. Cards that behave more like glacial shard....its not instantly beating the rogue but it is good tech for them because it can be held for a stage of the game where the weapon is over the top to buy you the handful of turns needed to win.

Let's move away from broken one shot hate cards.


Ironically, it is kingsbane that is a "one shot hate" card. So, maybe they can get rid of that? I’m sure most of the world would rejoice. But if not, then a tangible counter is needed. Ooze doesn’t cut it since the weapon comes back. Hmmmm. How about a lifesteal strip card? Maybe a card that resets the weapon back to base stats? Then they’d have to build it back up again? Nothing wrong with that.

Hey, they made kingsbane and made it extremely overpowered and ridiculous. So, the fair move is to make an equally ridiculous counter card. Ya wonder if blizzard will ever learn? Stop making stupidly broken cards and then we won’t need stupidly broken counters. Hello?
12/17/2018 10:40 PMPosted by Urza
Rust Monster, 4 mana 4/3. Battlecry - Change your opponents weapons attack to 1.

Clairvoyance, 2 mana priest epic spell. Discover a copy of a card in your opponents deck.

Warping Ooze, 6 mana 6/4. Battlecry - Silence and then destroy your opponents weapon

Void Entity, 5 mana 5/5 epic neutral. Immune to weapons


That last one is solid.

Immune to weapons on a minion does big things, especially at that mark. Useful against more than just kingsbane without completely discouraging weapon use.

Good start
12/17/2018 08:38 PMPosted by Gishgeron
12/17/2018 06:40 PMPosted by OilyWarlock
Just make an Ooze that silences and breaks a weapon, there are enough weapon deathrattles at this point to enable it.


...

Yet another instawin suggestion.

AND another one that pushes other weapons away.

Yes, let's antagonize deathrattle rogue. And rush warrior. And God knows what else. It's totally fine to murder their spikes to hit kingsbane.

And always beat it. Not "increase your chance to win". Always beat it. Silence ends the game.

Which is awfully churlish since it wasn't ever just instantly ending the game against you. It took well past turn 10 to assemble it to max.

Any instawin card is going to be drawn...it has all the time in the world to be drawn.

Yeesh. Can we get one suggestion that doesn't ruin the entire game for every weapon ever? Surely you guys can dial it back a little.


You seem to forget that there are cards that retrieve destroyed weaons (rummaging kobold).

A weapon silence would only make it so that it is dangerous for a kb rogue to put all of their weapon enchants on the same weapon.

And if all the tech card did was silence a weapon (not also destroy), it would almost never see use unless kingsbane was the top deck in the game (since very few weapons are commonly used that silence would be as good as a removal... basically just Kingsbane, Twig, Aluneth, and Nec blade... of those only kingsbane and twig are commonplace).

A card that could fully remove kingsbane would require just a tiny bit of forethought, and a card swap or two so that the rogue could retrieve it again.

It makes no difference to me at this point though... I don't play wild, and Kingsbane will finally be out of standard come the next set. If blizz wants to keep wild as the trash uncounterable card meta, let them.
How about: Increase the cost of each of your cards by 1 for each effect on Kingsbane.
2 effects/buffs on KB -> all your cards cost 2 more
12/18/2018 04:07 AMPosted by Turo
How about: Increase the cost of each of your cards by 1 for each effect on Kingsbane.
2 effects/buffs on KB -> all your cards cost 2 more


That's probably too much text on an already kinda wordy card.

Also, probably too harsh. That's harder to say, but it would become unplayable quickly as the deck survives, almost solely, on being able to chain a removal with it.

I wont swear to that, however. Without really trying to add alternate sustain options (there arent many, which is why I lean toward no) it's hard to say they couldn't opt for something like saronite chain gang type things.

If a cost nerf is what you want to discuss, it's probably better to just do a flat one. Cleaner, simpler, and easier to balance.
Just throwing darts at the wall here.Kingsbane only valid target is face.I'll go sit in the corner now lol
12/17/2018 08:38 PMPosted by Gishgeron
12/17/2018 06:40 PMPosted by OilyWarlock
Just make an Ooze that silences and breaks a weapon, there are enough weapon deathrattles at this point to enable it.


...

Yet another instawin suggestion.

AND another one that pushes other weapons away.

Yes, let's antagonize deathrattle rogue. And rush warrior. And God knows what else. It's totally fine to murder their spikes to hit kingsbane.

And always beat it. Not "increase your chance to win". Always beat it. Silence ends the game.

Which is awfully churlish since it wasn't ever just instantly ending the game against you. It took well past turn 10 to assemble it to max.

Any instawin card is going to be drawn...it has all the time in the world to be drawn.

Yeesh. Can we get one suggestion that doesn't ruin the entire game for every weapon ever? Surely you guys can dial it back a little.


That's funny since Kingsbane isnt a deck that deserves to exist. It has less interaction and nuance than Shudderwock while also breaking class conventions by granting Rouge healing. (the thing it should never have)
12/17/2018 08:38 PMPosted by Gishgeron
Yet another instawin suggestion.


its the type of suggestion people post here .... same with the nerfs

there are many who oppose balance and want less viable decks thats why they often suggest to kill decks or make cards unplayable

found people complaining about some classes having many viable deck instead of complaining about classes with only a few too
12/18/2018 06:36 AMPosted by Lucidoxxo
Just throwing darts at the wall here.Kingsbane only valid target is face.I'll go sit in the corner now lol


Well, that's a pretty severe nerf for sure. And...the first of its type in terms of card text.

Theres some neat implications, and ignoring kingsbane for a second also a really cool idea for new cards.

I mean, it means a taunt minion is immune. That's just one new interaction and one that flips how you think about tech.

I think that if weapon buffs were fewer and stronger it would be far less harsh, and I'd be sorta interested. As it stands I think it's too much since the deck essentially relies on the weapon for everything. Lethal, removal, sustain...and that's entirely due to the sheer volume of required slots to make it tick.

That's a neat proposal though. I like new interactions in general and you certainly suggested one
12/18/2018 07:21 AMPosted by OilyWarlock
12/17/2018 08:38 PMPosted by Gishgeron
...

...

Yet another instawin suggestion.

AND another one that pushes other weapons away.

Yes, let's antagonize deathrattle rogue. And rush warrior. And God knows what else. It's totally fine to murder their spikes to hit kingsbane.

And always beat it. Not "increase your chance to win". Always beat it. Silence ends the game.

Which is awfully churlish since it wasn't ever just instantly ending the game against you. It took well past turn 10 to assemble it to max.

Any instawin card is going to be drawn...it has all the time in the world to be drawn.

Yeesh. Can we get one suggestion that doesn't ruin the entire game for every weapon ever? Surely you guys can dial it back a little.


That's funny since Kingsbane isnt a deck that deserves to exist. It has less interaction and nuance than Shudderwock while also breaking class conventions by granting Rouge healing. (the thing it should never have)


What nuance?

Shudderwock doesnt have to sacrifice much to preload its combo. Its playing good cards that already see play in other decks. Then it gets to massively spike by using them again and again.

That's a bad example. And it's an actual OTK, meaning less interaction overall. Unless you're warlock.
How about a minion that breaks your opponent's weapon and gains its stats as a result. Make it a 4 mana 4/4.
So how about themed way for each class to deal with weapons in general? Typically not perminant.

Barkskin Protector
6 Mana 3/3 Druid Epic
Taunt
Battlecry: Gains health equal to the greatest attack among other characters and weapons in play.

Blades Snatcher
4 Mana 2/4 Hunter Epic Beast
Battlecry, Devour your opponent's weapon, and silence the weapon's deathrattle.
Deathrattle, Return the weapon to your opponent's hand.

Cold Front
3 mana mage secret Epic
When your hero is attacked, freeze the attacking character. (Ruling, this stops the attack, and the character is considered to have attacked and won't unfreeze (

Sanctum Purifier
4 mana 4/5 Paladin Epic
Heroes can't attack.

Aucenai Lifetwister
4 mana 2/6 Priest Epic
Lifestyle
All other cards that heal deal damage instead.

Dirty Trick
2 Mana Rogue Secret Epic
When an enemy character attacks, it deals no damage for the remainder of the turn.

Binding Elemental
5 Mana 2/8 Shaman Epic Elemental
Battlecry: Freeze Binding Elemental and an enemy character until either leaves play.

Mak'Gora
9 Mana Legendary Spell
Each hero loses all armor and replaces their weapon with a 2/2 axe. Both players choose a random enhancement for their weapon. This turn weapons do not lose durability. Starting with your opponent, players take turns attacking the enemy hero until one dies. Either play may click select their weapon to end this early, but their minions will abandon them.

(Ruling: Enhancements for the weapon are +2/+0, Windfury, or Divine Shield after taking damage.)

Suture Imp
3 Mana 2/4 Epic Warlock Demon
Stealth
Suture Imp steals all healing.
You would need a card that silences weapons or at least downgrade them somehow (attack/durability a.s.o.).

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