Its funny that people are asking for Kingsbane nerf because

Play Mode Discussion
If the entire reason people want Kingsbane nerfed is because its very polarizing (Very strong against control, very weak against aggro) and forces people to play certain decks/classes...

then how come I haven't heard any beep about nerfing Odd Warrior? Where were all of you? Its just as polarizing if not even more, certain decks already auto concede against them. At least against Kingsbane you still have a chance as control if the Rogue gets unlucky with draw.

How come I haven't heard anything about nerfing Odd Paladin? Its the definition of polarizing. and so is many Druid decks.

You can go check any website, there are plenty of decks which are as hot/cold as Kingsbane when it comes to disparity between win percentages against different decks.

It was fun as long as it wasn't polarizing against YOUR class, eh? Stay biased.

Edit: And here comes the downvotes lol. All this whining and crying won't stop until Control is literally the only archetype left in the game. Nerf Kinsgbane. Nerf Level Up and Soul Infusion before they rotate. Buff Spreading Plague. Give Mage and Priest and Shaman MORE board clears. Warrior hero power needs to be 6 armor at base. Am I doing it right forum folks?
Tempo Warrior, probably in the top 4 aggressive deck on ladder. Yet lost to Kingsbane Rogue because 3 Attack Kingsbane + lifesteal on turn 4.

Sure Tempo warrior beats 80% of Kingsbane rogues, but the 20% feels extra bad.

Sometimes I lose to Odd Warrior/Paladin/Rogue but it's not that awful. It's usually interesting match up imo. Can't say the same about Kingsbane, literally worst archetype that's been made by Blizzard since Jade Druid.
12/12/2018 04:50 AMPosted by Katanaswing
If the entire reason people want Kingsbane nerfed is because its very polarizing (Very strong against control, very weak against aggro) and forces people to play certain decks/classes...

then how come I haven't heard any beep about nerfing Odd Warrior? Where were all of you? Its just as polarizing if not even more, certain decks already auto concede against them. At least against Kingsbane you still have a chance as control if the Rogue gets unlucky with draw.

How come I haven't heard anything about nerfing Odd Paladin? Its the definition of polarizing. and so is many Druid decks.

You can go check any website, there are plenty of decks which are as hot/cold as Kingsbane when it comes to disparity between win percentages against different decks.

It was fun as long as it wasn't polarizing against YOUR class, eh?

Stay biased forums.


There was a huge deck about nerfing baku heropower for oddwarrior some weeks ago

I was against it
12/12/2018 05:07 AMPosted by Warsong
Tempo Warrior, probably in the top 4 aggressive deck on ladder. Yet lost to Kingsbane Rogue because 3 Attack Kingsbane + lifesteal on turn 4.

Sure Tempo warrior beats 80% of Kingsbane rogues, but the 20% feels extra bad.

Sometimes I lose to Odd Warrior/Paladin/Rogue but it's not that awful. It's usually interesting match up imo. Can't say the same about Kingsbane, literally worst archetype that's been made by Blizzard since Jade Druid.


"Tempo Warrior, probably in the top 4 aggressive deck on ladder."

http://whatyearisit.info/

If you play any deck that even slightly deserves the prefix "Aggro", you should have well over 60% winrate against Kingsbane
12/12/2018 05:12 AMPosted by azweik
12/12/2018 04:50 AMPosted by Katanaswing
If the entire reason people want Kingsbane nerfed is because its very polarizing (Very strong against control, very weak against aggro) and forces people to play certain decks/classes...

then how come I haven't heard any beep about nerfing Odd Warrior? Where were all of you? Its just as polarizing if not even more, certain decks already auto concede against them. At least against Kingsbane you still have a chance as control if the Rogue gets unlucky with draw.

How come I haven't heard anything about nerfing Odd Paladin? Its the definition of polarizing. and so is many Druid decks.

You can go check any website, there are plenty of decks which are as hot/cold as Kingsbane when it comes to disparity between win percentages against different decks.

It was fun as long as it wasn't polarizing against YOUR class, eh?

Stay biased forums.


There was a huge deck about nerfing baku heropower for oddwarrior some weeks ago

I was against it


And what is your stance about Kingsbane?
12/12/2018 05:13 AMPosted by Katanaswing
"Tempo Warrior, probably in the top 4 aggressive deck on ladder."

http://whatyearisit.info/

If you play any deck that even slightly deserves the prefix "Aggro", you should have well over 60% winrate against Kingsbane


Literally the current highest winrate Warrior deck and fastest way to climb to high ranks with Warrior. Odd is the most popular, but Rush/Tempo Warrior is the best Warrior deck atm.

It out aggros Odd Paladin, Odd rogue. So imo definitely one of the faster decks on the ladder. Ending game on turn 7 on average. Only Zoo is faster.

Like I said, Tempo Warrior has 80% Winrate against Kingsbane Rogue.
12/12/2018 05:26 AMPosted by Warsong
12/12/2018 05:13 AMPosted by Katanaswing
"Tempo Warrior, probably in the top 4 aggressive deck on ladder."

http://whatyearisit.info/

If you play any deck that even slightly deserves the prefix "Aggro", you should have well over 60% winrate against Kingsbane


Literally the current highest winrate Warrior deck and fastest way to climb to high ranks with Warrior. Odd is the most popular, but Rush/Tempo Warrior is the best Warrior deck atm.

It out aggros Odd Paladin, Odd rogue. So imo definitely one of the faster decks on the ladder. Ending game on turn 7 on average. Only Zoo is faster.

Like I said, Tempo Warrior has 80% Winrate against Kingsbane Rogue.


So even though you have 80% winrate against Kingsbane you felt extremely annoyed by that 1 game you lost against it and decided that KB is not even weak against Aggro? I'm confused
I definitely think that there are calls to nerf Odd Warrior, it's just that they often fall under the umbrella of wanting to nerf Baku. Odd Warrior being one of only three classes that hugely benefits from the card, it is baked into those calls rather than being the sole focus of complaints.

As for what the difference is, I suspect the biggest difference is Kingsbane has a non-fatigue win condition. It actually kills its opponent and the fact that it goes "infinite" is kind of secondary in most match ups. It's like the old Jade Druid in that regard, which was another deck which received a large amount of complaints. It seems that for most players it feels worse to be beaten by a deck which does relentlessly huge amounts of damage than a deck which just wears down your resources. I'm not really sure if there's something valid to that, but it could be argued that part of the reason is you lose the game earlier on against a deck with a win condition and it can feel like your choices are less impactful.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of hyper polarizing decks, but I think it's still a little early to be calling out Kingsbane Rogue. I've found it very frustrating to play against, but it's weak to aggro and seems beatable by some variations of slower Hunter decks and some Druid decks, so it may start to phase out as less refined decks disappear from the meta.
Doesn't everyone dislike Kingsbane because how it is designed?

It's pretty obvious not the strongest deck, it is generally just a very frustrating deck to lose against.

Imo it's extra frustrating if you already play (pretty) aggressive deck and you STILL lose to it. What response do you expect? You expect someone to smile and say: "Wow, what an awesome game!"

Decks like Jade Druid and Kingsbane will never be praised...

In Wild those 2 decks are even more oppressive.
12/12/2018 05:57 AMPosted by Warsong

It's pretty obvious not the strongest deck, it is generally just a very frustrating deck to lose against.

Imo it's extra frustrating if you already play (pretty) aggressive deck and you STILL lose to it. What response do you expect? You expect someone to smile and say: "Wow, what an awesome game!"


Thats Hearthstone. None of the decks are fun to lose against.

Does it feel any better when you see Shudderwock do its thing as you watch yourself lose? Does it feel any better when you get swarmed by Pally dudes and watch them zerg you before you even get the chance to react?

Does your aggro opponents feel any better when they watch you gain as much armor as they do damage every turn and then watch you play the 300 IQ card Brawl?

Goes on and on.
Shudderwock is also horrible designed deck.

Odd Paladin is imo a fine deck, because it's minion combat between Aggro. And for Control it's survival.

But Shudderwock, Quest Mage, Kingsbane Rogue, Jade Druid it's a time-bomb, which is worst kind of strategy Hearthstone can offer. I pretty much dislike all of them even if I have 80% winrate with a deck I play.
12/12/2018 06:11 AMPosted by Warsong
Shudderwock is also horrible designed deck.

Odd Paladin is imo a fine deck, because it's minion combat between Aggro. And for Control it's survival.

But Shudderwock, Quest Mage, Kingsbane Rogue, Jade Druid it's a time-bomb, which is worst kind of strategy Hearthstone can offer. I pretty much dislike all of them even if I have 80% winrate with a deck I play.


I just gave some examples. Its all subjective anyway, whats fun to lose against and whats not.
12/12/2018 04:50 AMPosted by Katanaswing
How come I haven't heard anything about nerfing Odd Paladin? Its the definition of polarizing. and so is many Druid decks.


What? You havent heard ? Do you read these forums and/or redit?
12/12/2018 06:15 AMPosted by haargroth
12/12/2018 04:50 AMPosted by Katanaswing
How come I haven't heard anything about nerfing Odd Paladin? Its the definition of polarizing. and so is many Druid decks.


What? You havent heard ? Do you read these forums and/or redit?


I don't read reddit but I do read this forum. Haven't seen anything that comes close to outrage against KB.
12/12/2018 06:06 AMPosted by Katanaswing
12/12/2018 05:57 AMPosted by Warsong

It's pretty obvious not the strongest deck, it is generally just a very frustrating deck to lose against.

Imo it's extra frustrating if you already play (pretty) aggressive deck and you STILL lose to it. What response do you expect? You expect someone to smile and say: "Wow, what an awesome game!"


Thats Hearthstone. None of the decks are fun to lose against.

Does it feel any better when you see Shudderwock do its thing as you watch yourself lose? Does it feel any better when you get swarmed by Pally dudes and watch them zerg you before you even get the chance to react?

Does your aggro opponents feel any better when they watch you gain as much armor as they do damage every turn and then watch you play the 300 IQ card Brawl?

Goes on and on.


I somewhat disagree here. Losing to infinite value cards/decks is clearly more salt-inducing than simply getting smorc'd from a fast aggro deck or some "normal" midrange style deck. Its clear from the posts/threads that most players cant STAND games against decks that do nothing but remove/draw/heal or armor for 20 turns and then kil you from hand. Or, games that feel there wasnt anything you could have done to stop whatever goofy combo/late game shenanigans got dumped on you.

The polarized matchups problem is real. Way moreso than ever before. Odd Warrior is certainly a deck that would be an instant concede for many other decks. Who the hell wants to deal with seemingly unlimted armor and removal for 45 mins? Only someone that had brain damage, lol.

Here's the deal: In the good old days of HS, your worst matchups were still only like 40/60 against you. Mayube 35/65 in the absolute worst cases. It was WORTH playing out the game though because your odds werent so awful. Now? My goodness.... Id be rich if I could bet on HS games since so many are won right at the matchup screen. Doesnt matter the players skill level either. far too many games are just auto-wins or losses. Thats the meta we have now. Period.
12/12/2018 06:14 AMPosted by Katanaswing
I just gave some examples. Its all subjective anyway, whats fun to lose against and whats not.


Yea, and Kingsbane rogue is not one of the deck that's fun to lose to. That's why many people want Blizzard to nerf it.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

What? You havent heard ? Do you read these forums and/or redit?


I don't read reddit but I do read this forum. Haven't seen anything that comes close to outrage against KB.


Then you should check these forums before making claim like that. To see how wrong you are. Players ask for a nerf for odd paladin since it was released (Witchwood) and players ask for a nerf for a druid - well...since forever I guess but especially when the drawback of ramp was removed - UI and Spreading Plague (KoFT).

EDIT - actually I do not know if Odd pala hate was right from the start. I guess once they released the Dustwood , Even paladin was broken as hell. Odd too his place after the nerf to Call to Arms I guess
12/12/2018 06:26 AMPosted by Warsong
12/12/2018 06:14 AMPosted by Katanaswing
I just gave some examples. Its all subjective anyway, whats fun to lose against and whats not.


Yea, and Kingsbane rogue is not one of the deck that's fun to lose to. That's why many people want Blizzard to nerf it.


Who is many people, you and the rest of the Odd Warriors disguised as aggro warriors just for arguments sake?
I don't even play Odd Warrior. Too time consuming for me and too slow for laddering. If I play a slower Warrior deck it would be Recruit Warrior or Taunt Warrior which I haven't touch for months.

No, I play pretty much Rush Warrior/Tempo Warrior exclusively. Literally all my wins are from Priest, Odd Paladin, and very importantly Kingsbane Rogue.

So even for someone who is feasting on Kingsbane Rogues on ladders, I still hate the deck. If even I hate it, not surprising that Control decks like Odd Warrior, Even-Paladin, Elemental Mage hate it too. It's simply said a hated deck by big majority of the player-base all around the world.
Actually in the Boomsday meta I've called Baku Warrior the most polarizing deck on the meta.

Right now it is fairly rare and for now I'm also willing to see where Kingsbane settles. We need to give the meta at least a month or a bit longer before evaluating issues imho

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum