Its funny that people are asking for Kingsbane nerf because

Play Mode Discussion
odd warrior has gone kind of extinct but it does need a nerf

odd paladin needs less consistency

kingsbane needs to stop bein rogue currently most popular deck -it stops being fun after every rogue you play is running the knife as their deck centerpiece
1. The main difference between KS and Odd Warrior:

KB is quite popular deck, OW is not. Current stats in Europe, Ranks 15-1:
KB - 6,70%
OW - 1,56%

So, it is rather obvious why people complain more about KB.

2. KB is very popular despite being quite inefficient deck. It has only slight above 51% win rate, yet for some reason people love to play it. If people in ladder love to play it, then probably casual players also love it.

It is save to assume that casual player to not use deck tracking apps. So they don't contribute too much for stats at the lower ranks and for casual mode.

Combined with the fact that KB decks is dirt cheap (without Valeera it costs under 3000 dust and works more or less the same) I would risk the statement that at lower ranks and in casual mode KB decks are probably much more popular than it appear.

3. Difference in interaction

Interraction with KB is quite limited. Agro and midrange might try to outrace it (usually successfully), Combo does whatever it wanted to do. But what can most control decks do? Yes, that's the thing, not much...

Most decks, even those with low win rate, might actually try to interact with OW.

Those might be reasons, why players are so vocal about KB.

Myself, I believe that OW is total abomination, while KB is just a minor nuisance. So opinions might vary.
12/12/2018 07:51 AMPosted by RhokDelar
odd warrior has gone kind of extinct but it does need a nerf

odd paladin needs less consistency

kingsbane needs to stop bein rogue currently most popular deck -it stops being fun after every rogue you play is running the knife as their deck centerpiece


Rogue needs new cards for this to happen.

Miracle isn't really competitive atm, odd rogue is easily shut down, there's 0 sustain, defence and healing (outside of leeching kb), and the burst damage of rogue has been extremely outpaced by the !@#$ton of armor, defence, healing, and taunts that's in current meta (not that it was even competitive compared to ridiculous cube/katrina charge shenanigans levels of burst). Q rogue has been repeatedly gutted to unplayable state. Etc.

The new thing rogues got, Pirates,
are a meme atm.

I mean sure, I have np if they remove KB, but before that, there should be enough powerful enough cards for rogues to have a good enough deck to contest Druids, hunters, odd warriors and pallies.

Since blizz is not in the business of actually making the host of crap cards playable, but only nerfs things, this means that the fastest this can happen is next xpac.

By next xpac though KB is wild, so I don't think that anything will (or should) change atm.

After the rotation, for wild, I can see adjustments.
Who cares about Kingsbane? It's a cancerous card like Spreading Plague but it'll be banished to Wild along with every other design mistake from K&C and KotFT.
There's a reason Ben Brode left
12/12/2018 10:04 AMPosted by OilyWarlock
Who cares about Kingsbane? It's a cancerous card like Spreading Plague but it'll be banished to Wild along with every other design mistake from K&C and KotFT.


Because Wild mode IS a valid mode that many of us care about and KB in wild is the most cancerous, awful deck ever in the history of CCGs. Ever.
12/12/2018 10:29 AMPosted by Mikey
12/12/2018 10:04 AMPosted by OilyWarlock
Who cares about Kingsbane? It's a cancerous card like Spreading Plague but it'll be banished to Wild along with every other design mistake from K&C and KotFT.


Because Wild mode IS a valid mode that many of us care about and KB in wild is the most cancerous, awful deck ever in the history of CCGs. Ever.
Confirmed. Got to love the player base that doesn't give a crap about wild play. "Who cares, its getting moved to wild" will not solve any of the issues that Kingsbane presents. Some of us enjoy playing wild and want balance without playing polarized handicap decks every game. The only reason wild has turned into a dumping ground is because members of the community seem okay with that idea so they couldn't be bothered by other peoples problems.
12/12/2018 01:35 PMPosted by Tman15tmb
The only reason wild has turned into a dumping ground is because members of the community seem okay with that idea so they couldn't be bothered by other peoples problems.


To be honest, I think the real reason is because more or less Blizzard wanted it to be like that.

They didn't call it Extended, Legacy, Eternal, Ancient, they called it Wild with a purpose in mind. Simply Wild = Anything goes!

As we can see balancing Wild is rather low priority for Blizz. And it also fits the name: Let it live it's own life, let I go Wild!

Maybe it will change in the future when Wild gets more of its own identity, but we probably need few more years of expansions for that to happen.
Tempo warrior out aggroing agro decks like wut?
12/12/2018 01:49 PMPosted by Reid666
12/12/2018 01:35 PMPosted by Tman15tmb
The only reason wild has turned into a dumping ground is because members of the community seem okay with that idea so they couldn't be bothered by other peoples problems.


To be honest, I think the real reason is because more or less Blizzard wanted it to be like that.

They didn't call it Extended, Legacy, Eternal, Ancient, they called it Wild with a purpose in mind. Simply Wild = Anything goes!

As we can see balancing Wild is rather low priority for Blizz. And it also fits the name: Let it live it's own life, let I go Wild!

Maybe it will change in the future when Wild gets more of its own identity, but we probably need few more years of expansions for that to happen.
Yeah, I believe its a combination of the Dev's and the community thinking wild should be the dumping ground for old cards. I agree wild should have crazy combos which they do but I have never supported any deck that forces players to auto concede before the game starts. Of course some people are sore losers and concede no matter the circumstance and for other members they understand losing is part of the game but they can't manage to compete against polarized decks so rather than play a drawn out game they auto concede to prevent wasting time. There is a major difference between a poor match up and not being able to do anything. I get wrecked by all aggro decks but there is still that miniscule chance I have at winning so I play the game out knowing that there is a 90% chance I lose but that 10% keeps me optimistic. Unless someone plays an aggro deck or a deck that was designed to counter KB they statistically have no shot at winning unless by some miracle the Kingsbaner had a bad hand the entire game.
12/12/2018 05:26 AMPosted by Warsong
Literally the current highest winrate Warrior deck and fastest way to climb to high ranks with Warrior. Odd is the most popular, but Rush/Tempo Warrior is the best Warrior deck atm.


What build out of curiousity?

I've seen quite a few varieties of Tempo Warrior flying around, everything from Spirit of the Rhino Rush, Beast-Enrage-Rush, lots of 1 drops agro rush, Tempo Rush with dragons. I imagine we're still in the experimental phase with the deck, curious what's been pulling ahead.
12/12/2018 04:50 AMPosted by Katanaswing
If the entire reason people want Kingsbane nerfed is because its very polarizing (Very strong against control, very weak against aggro)


Very weak against agressive decks? That's with lifesteal, high damage, 2 saps, 2 vanishes (aoe clear), 1 blade flurry (aoe clear), 2 fan of knives (aoe clear against odd paladin before level up), 2 free taunt minions, 2 free extra attacks that don't damage you, 1 turn immunity and armor, 2 sprints, meaning they will draw all these things very fast, while the weapon is practically on you 24/7 now, oozes or not.

Literally got crushed on my odd paladin with having 4 3 hp dudes on turn 4. Got crushed as odd hunter and especially even paladin (not even close).

This deck has tools to deal with everything. It doesn't seem to have extreme counters. Hell, it's 50/50 against spell hunters that are also flooding the high ranks.
One reason is Kingsbane is a card, Odd Warrior and Odd Paladin are archetypes. Saying Baku or Level Up should be changed is one thing but complaining about an entire deck type is kinda pointless without specifics as to which cards in the archetype needs to be changed.
12/12/2018 06:47 PMPosted by Regan
12/12/2018 04:50 AMPosted by Katanaswing
If the entire reason people want Kingsbane nerfed is because its very polarizing (Very strong against control, very weak against aggro)


Very weak against agressive decks? That's with lifesteal, high damage, 2 saps, 2 vanishes (aoe clear), 1 blade flurry (aoe clear), 2 fan of knives (aoe clear against odd paladin before level up), 2 free taunt minions, 2 free extra attacks that don't damage you, 1 turn immunity and armor, 2 sprints, meaning they will draw all these things very fast, while the weapon is practically on you 24/7 now, oozes or not.

Literally got crushed on my odd paladin with having 4 3 hp dudes on turn 4. Got crushed as odd hunter and especially even paladin (not even close).

This deck has tools to deal with everything. It doesn't seem to have extreme counters. Hell, it's 50/50 against spell hunters that are also flooding the high ranks.


You probably got bad draws while he got very good draws.
I am playing with zoolock (the cheap one, with Prince) and when I see a rogue pulling Kingsbane it feels good because I know my victory is almost certain. Kingsbane rogues hate me probably as much as control deck players hate them.
For kingsbane , I think it doesn't need a nerf has there is a rotation soon , but I also think the main reason people want it nerf is because you cannot destroy it permenantly , and since we have no weapon silence , it cannot be stoped .

For the wild part , stop trying to get balance in it , its wild , its a mode that was created to be unbalanced …. I know the main reason to play wild is to not lose out the cards collected that rotates but you did sign up for a wild experience ;p

Should not have to nerf a card like kingsbane when a silence your opponent weapon card could be created instead(and be usefull vs a few decks)
OP is kings weak to aggro? You sure about that? OP-Heal beats aggro now?
I mean its super high odds to be in hand by turn-3.
lifesteal is an obvious keep off the mulligan / mulligan for it.

so once they hit their lifesteal weapon....its turn-3, 4, 5...its buffed...what does aggro have? once its buffed any cards in hand only help kings' survivability...spells..minions...coldlight for more survivability cards...

the only two ways kings loses to aggro is if it somehow misses the weapon early...which is possible...and unlikely. the more likely way is to miss lifesteal and/or somehow miss one of the major buffers like poison.

also, if aggro is such a big deal...kings can tech less for mill and more for stall...so like take out idk..."I want you" cubed or 4/4 deathrattle weapon buff...for like....tar creeper or saronite...or glacial....those meta-neutrals that unfortunately box out every other neutral and sometimes class cards for those mana costs. I mean obviously Kings would never-touch shadowstep because that's more-core than kings itself...for coldlight combo that's OP and overseen.
Data on kingsbane matchups: https://hsreplay.net/archetypes/184/kingsbane-rogue#tab=matchups
I play both, though only OW on ladder. I absolutely hate that the OW is one card away from being able to deal with Shudderwocks. The problem card is Emberscale Drake requiring Dragon in hand. Otherwise you could counter it. And that’s the frustrating part of playing that deck always one card away with better dealing with more meta choices. Unfortunately aggro is so strong Warrior can’t deal with it without Baku, other versions have failed dramatically since BDP.

So I’m switching to either Spell/Secret Hunter or Kingsbane tomorrow. Waiting for the VS report since it’s much better than HSReplay for ladder performance determinations.
12/12/2018 10:05 PMPosted by Thorodan
OP is kings weak to aggro? You sure about that? OP-Heal beats aggro now?
I mean its super high odds to be in hand by turn-3.
lifesteal is an obvious keep off the mulligan / mulligan for it.

so once they hit their lifesteal weapon....its turn-3, 4, 5...its buffed...what does aggro have? once its buffed any cards in hand only help kings' survivability...spells..minions...coldlight for more survivability cards...

the only two ways kings loses to aggro is if it somehow misses the weapon early...which is possible...and unlikely. the more likely way is to miss lifesteal and/or somehow miss one of the major buffers like poison.

also, if aggro is such a big deal...kings can tech less for mill and more for stall...so like take out idk..."I want you" cubed or 4/4 deathrattle weapon buff...for like....tar creeper or saronite...or glacial....those meta-neutrals that unfortunately box out every other neutral and sometimes class cards for those mana costs. I mean obviously Kings would never-touch shadowstep because that's more-core than kings itself...for coldlight combo that's OP and overseen.


Yeah, if they miss kingsbane draw.... or lifesteal draw... or kingsbane buff draw..... Oh wait, they need to draw all of them at start to make it work!

Not to mention they need to hit with KB every turn to keep up, so need another KB draw by turn 4.... hmm yeah.

Dude just play a few games against KB as Aggro, you’ll see. You obviously havent played yet

Or you can just check the match up winrates guy linked above
12/13/2018 12:42 AMPosted by Katanaswing
12/12/2018 10:05 PMPosted by Thorodan
OP is kings weak to aggro? You sure about that? OP-Heal beats aggro now?
I mean its super high odds to be in hand by turn-3.
lifesteal is an obvious keep off the mulligan / mulligan for it.

so once they hit their lifesteal weapon....its turn-3, 4, 5...its buffed...what does aggro have? once its buffed any cards in hand only help kings' survivability...spells..minions...coldlight for more survivability cards...

the only two ways kings loses to aggro is if it somehow misses the weapon early...which is possible...and unlikely. the more likely way is to miss lifesteal and/or somehow miss one of the major buffers like poison.

also, if aggro is such a big deal...kings can tech less for mill and more for stall...so like take out idk..."I want you" cubed or 4/4 deathrattle weapon buff...for like....tar creeper or saronite...or glacial....those meta-neutrals that unfortunately box out every other neutral and sometimes class cards for those mana costs. I mean obviously Kings would never-touch shadowstep because that's more-core than kings itself...for coldlight combo that's OP and overseen.


Yeah, if they miss kingsbane draw.... or lifesteal draw... or kingsbane buff draw..... Oh wait, they need to draw all of them at start to make it work!

Not to mention they need to hit with KB every turn to keep up, so need another KB draw by turn 4.... hmm yeah.

Dude just play a few games against KB as Aggro, you’ll see. You obviously havent played yet

Or you can just check the match up winrates guy linked above
You make Kingsbane sound complicated but the fact of the matter is that most Kingsbaners rock cold light so they have no issue vomiting out all of their cards into their hand with the ability to play every weapon buff they have all while draining the opponents deck of cards. Yeah, real complicated play style. If people choose to think Kingsbane is complicated or requires "skill" then they are only fooling themselves.

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