Yet again.... (Even Shaman/Paladin)

Play Mode Discussion
I was replying to another thread and this post was deleted. Why, yet again, is Even Shaman (and Even Paladin) so underplayed compared to what it's power is showing?

HSR last 3 days, Rank 5 - Legend

Even Paladin and Even Shaman are the two most powerful decks based on WR but are criminally underplayed based on power they are showing (near 1.5% each).

Compare this some of the most played archetypes are showing as tier 2+ in power:
- Secret Hunter (#2 most played)
- Kingsbane Rogue (t3) (#3 most played)
- Odd Mage (t3) (#4 most played)
- Shudderwock (#5 most played)
- Zoolock (#6 most played)

The only deck where it appears winrate maximization is occurring is Odd Paladin.

Now, I understand people's preferences and fun come into play (hell I play Hakkar Priest the most) but just curious your thoughts on why Even Shaman and Even Paladin are so criminally underplayed.... especially Even Shaman which has been a data driven strong choice since the launch of Boomsday
I've been very curious about this myself. The decks you mention are ridiculously powerful and have been for quite some time.Possible crafting cost of the decks or are people holding back for rotation?
For some silly reason, I read that as Even Shaman and Odd Paladin and derped hard.

Now this post won't delete.

Woot.
I use Even Paladin and its a solid deck. It's has lots of options, and it's flexible. It's also a generally 'better' deck than Odd Paladin in the sense that it is less vulnerable to bad matches.

The reason I think it isn't more popular is the obvious one. It's much SLOWER than Odd Pally. When you're doing Even Pally, you have to sit yourself back and be ready for a long match. A lot of people find this offputting, I deem.
They are both pretty expensive decks. You've got what 5 legends in Shaman, and lists with 6 legends in Paladin.

Not to mention some of those legends are pretty uninteresting crafts if you didn't open them.

I myself don't have Kalimos, and I'm not about to craft him with only four months left on his shelf life.
Even Shaman is very good. The Thunderhead variant is reasonably affordable to craft and has better odds vs Odd Paladin... Though, that's based on my own experiences, YMMV.

I'm not sure why the deck didn't see much play last season, but this season it was hard to play with so many Spell Hunters. It also doesn't use any new cards and it's nowhere near as consistent as Odd Paladin.
Hakkar is THE way..

He brings corruption to everyone. Without any discrimination. he does bring some extra for druids tho, specially togglewaggle druids. He really doesnt like those.

But to come back. Even pala i played a lot. The sharpy/corpstaker/blessing of kings can bring someone down before turn 5. Same for adding mountain giants and drygulch something.. played even a lot before RR. But Hakkar wont let me go.. the wins give me so much satisfaction.

Hail to hakkar bringer of mass hysteria. You cant outrun those bloods
I think it's because while even paladin and shaman are relatively good against almost everything, they're not OVERWHELMINGLY good against anything. It seems that despite all the complaints that matchup polarity gets, people seem to gravitate to decks that have several oppressive winrates (in their favor) and one or to oppressive winrates against them.
I have Even Shaman and Paladin since Witchwood.

They're good decks...but not fantastic. And in this meta good doesn't seem to cut it.

In the case of Even Shaman, if you don't open with a Flametongue Totem early followed by windfury Corpsetaker, your early pressure is pretty much insignificant against most decks. In fact you'll probably be the one being pressured back.

You also have no card draw or tutors whatsoever and rely on top decks for the entire match. You have no reliable board clears to come back in case you lost the board or to bypass taunt walls, like Even Paladin can do.

Hagatha on the other hand is an excellent card. She bailed me out more times than I can count. Windfury, Earth Shocks, Healing Rain, Unstable Evolution, Bloodlust... there are lots of useful Shaman spells.

Even Paladin now uses a Corpsetaker package as well. Theirs ir a little better because even if it loses windfury, Blessing of Kings can make anything threatening.

Equality + Consec can clear anything whether to come back or to push damage. Paladin has a lot of buffs (Kings, Steed, Val'anyr). Val'anyr is a nightmare to deal with for a lot of classes. You have Sunkeeper Tarim as well. You have reach with Avenging Wrath. You have weapons to control the board (something Shaman doesn't have).

The WW Even Paladin was fantastic (pretty much broken) because between Call to Arms and Loot Hoarders, you had fantastic deck thinning to get to the juicy stuff. Now you might only have Loot Hoarders, if that.

TL;DR: Both decks are great, but they aren't explosive like Odd Paladin and even Odd Rogue can be if you're looking for aggression.

They can be somewhat consistent, but the lack of card draw really hurts. Even Odd Paladin has Divine Favor and Odd Rogue Myra's Unstable Element.
I made a thread about the legend Meta and the hard headed insistence by many players at that high level to play flashy late game strategies over more aggressive better performing ones.

In the case of these two it doesn’t get any more results oriented and lack of flash. The Shaman totem has to be the most plebeian of the HPs.

Even Paladin also suffers from nerfed stigma along with Cubelock.
12/17/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Marcoscongas
I made a thread about the legend Meta and the hard headed insistence by many players at that high level to play flashy late game strategies over more aggressive better performing ones.

In the case of these two it doesn’t get any more results oriented and lack of flash. The Shaman totem has to be the most plebeian of the HPs.

Even Paladin also suffers from nerfed stigma along with Cubelock.

Yeah that nerf stigma is real, lol

Enjoyed reading people's thoughts. I think the cost plus the fact that the decks lacks a lot of 'easy games' could be a very real reason.
I like Even Shaman. So many different ways to build it. Even Shaman can beat Kingsbane. It steamrolls your opponent too. The only thing I don't like about Even Shaman is the lack of wipes.
About Even Shaman:
1. It's expensive.
2. It's deceptively weak and unattractive (no broken, apparent win-condition).
3. If someone wants to play Even Shaman, they will play the Wild variation: cheaper, much stronger than standard.
4. They fear Spreading Plague. In Wild, i always keep a Devolve when seeing a Druid. Mossy Horror is ok, but it can kill your minions too.
People that say even Paladin and shaman are weak, are bad with the decks.

The real reason is that those decks are harder to play than most will admit.
With both decks my experience is that both require good mana curves. For even paladin the 6 mana weapon on the curve is very important.

I have only played even Shaman after the new expansion. I find spell hunter a very tricky match up. That’s why I switched to other decks. Haven’t seen many even Shaman on ladder either. My limited experience so far does not match the reported overall win rate.
Because Odd Paladin fills the same niche but is better in every way.
12/17/2018 06:43 PMPosted by OilyWarlock
Because Odd Paladin fills the same niche but is better in every way.


You sure?Even paladin plays out more like midrange and has the power to blow holes in a lot of control/otk decks.

Odd paladin is great for ladder but folds to heavy control?No denying it's power but really not the same niche.(Personal preference I'm tired of spewing dudes paladin:p)
12/17/2018 06:06 PMPosted by jawsofwar
People that say even Paladin and shaman are weak, are bad with the decks.

The real reason is that those decks are harder to play than most will admit.
Bingo, on Even Shaman. The deck is very strong. However, if you go about playing it without having a plan as to how you're going to win. Well, you won't do as well.
I've been playing a ton of Even Shaman ever since Witchwood. The beginning of Rastakhan was incredibly tough for it (Spell Hunter, BSM/Odd Mage, and Odd Paladin seemed to be everywhere and they are the few rough match-ups Even Shaman has aside from Even Warlock) and I still face a lot of those.

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