2018: The new teams plus and minus

Play Mode Discussion
Ok so i decided to make this post in order to give a healthy feedback of the good and bad things that happened after BB left and the new team got in charge. We re already counting 3 expansions since BB left and with the start of the new year i think an overview is good.

Plus:
-More balanced expansions
No more pirate warrior, aggro shaman, razakus, jades etc dominance. Even hunter at its current state cannot be compared with these decks at their finest points.
- Better offers
Since the new team got in charge we re getting good offers (although that probably has to do with another department). The 20$---->30 packs offer or the 50$----> 50 packs + 1 golden legendary + new hero werent things that you would find a year back. Instead all you could do is buy a 50$--->50 packs preorder.
- Wild got more attention
We got the first wild tournament in hs s history, wild balance nerfs and WOW at last a wild bundle!!!!! This is certainly good news for wild players like me so thx blizzard.

Minus:
-The new sets didnt shake the meta.
Seriusly in each and every set since witchwood a nerf was needed for the meta to change. In ww they nerfed cubelock to change the meta, in bd project the meta didnt change at all (except mage got out with the mana wyrm nerf) and in rastakhans rumble case well had the nerfs never happened the meta would be the same as bd project.
- The nerfs in most cases were not right AND WERE SPECIFICALLY TARGETING THE VANILLA CARDS
Seriusly mana wyrm nerf? LOL Wild growth and nourish nerfs? LOL
- Meta got boring
Playing vs an opponent with 100+ armor or continues lifesteal or infinite value or vs someone who just stalls the game to OTK you is simply not fun
Yeah that those new expansions didnt shake the meta.. means that they kinda doing a power reset.. This is actually a good thing for the long run..

But for the current seasons.. well to each his own.

I am happy they do it

And very happy with the wild bundle.

April will come and most of the playerbase will and are happy pandas..

The whiners and complainers will always be here and find something to complain.. some rare few will have a good constructive topic with valid points.. but most will be just spoiled little first world problem brats :)
01/08/2019 02:27 PMPosted by Delfunk
Yeah that those new expansions didnt shake the meta.. means that they kinda doing a power reset.. This is actually a good thing for the long run..

But for the current seasons.. well to each his own.

I am happy they do it

And very happy with the wild bundle.

April will come and most of the playerbase will and are happy pandas..

The whiners and complainers will always be here and find something to complain.. some rare few will have a good constructive topic with valid points.. but most will be just spoiled little first world problem brats :)


10-4 - 100% accurate.
>sets are more balanced

Wew lad.

I don't know how you spin the state of the metagame this hard with a straight face. The new sets are trash and so is the metagame. "even with hunter hurr durr durr not as bad hurrrr" no. Hunter is still a third of the metagame. The problem with hunter right now is exactly the same as the problem with pirates and all the other stuff you mentioned - it's everywhere, it's not fun or interesting to play with or against, and a little testing and foresight could have prevented it from being as stupid as it is. But they don't test nearly as much as they should, so it's a mess.
01/08/2019 02:27 PMPosted by Delfunk
they kinda doing a power reset.. This is actually a good thing for the long run..

I agree. I have a good feeling about this April rotation. I feel the cycling out of the last year of power cards will make for a much more balanced game.
01/08/2019 02:57 PMPosted by autosquelch
01/08/2019 02:27 PMPosted by Delfunk
they kinda doing a power reset.. This is actually a good thing for the long run..

I agree. I have a good feeling about this April rotation. I feel the cycling out of the last year of power cards will make for a much more balanced game.


It depends on the definition of balanced.

Don't get me wrong. We will have fun because things gonna change but forced powereset never will be good design because a error not justify another.

Actually that raven year was one of the worse experiences i'm ever had not due to game problems but because it was boring and uninspired.

The game needs as much balance as it needs explosive cards/powerplays and since i'm somehow made it to the end of the year without quit i'm want to see how things gonna be after the mammoth year rotates.
Solid post TheChemist.

Appreciate the constructive approach to providing feedback.

Cheers!
01/08/2019 02:23 PMPosted by TheChemist
We got the first wild tournament in hs s history,


*2nd* they started in 2017. the sad thing is that much like christmas they only come but once a year. is a shame to me, they are more entertaining to watch than the same matchups i have played on ladder for months.
01/08/2019 03:45 PMPosted by Jesse Hill
Solid post TheChemist.

Appreciate the constructive approach to providing feedback.

Cheers!


Whoa.
For a second I thought you were going to announce two new Hearthstone teams "Plus" and "Minus."

Plus - Game Balance
The game was balanced enough that I could play basically any deck that I want with some degree of success. There have been plenty of fun decks to play for every class

Minus - The Recent Nerfs
Unlike previous nerfs, the most recent round was released hours after being announced. I was looking forward to playing Kingsbane a little for the last few months before rotation, but wasn't given even a single day to play the deck the way it was.

There was also the issue of indirect nerfs. Kingsbane and Shudderwock were both VERY blatantly nerfed, but did not receive a refund. Normally I wouldn't complain about this policy, but in this case they are cards that were clearly targeted for nerfs by nerfing or changing they way a support card works. It was so direct that Kingsbane and Shudderwock were actually mentioned in the nerf post far more than the cards that were actually nerfed.
Just a few comments. BB left after WW was released, so we are only 2 expansions in. Since Team 5 is known to work 2-3 expansions ahead, his hand was most likely in the last two expansions as well.
So the his hand was in the lower powered expansions, but not in the recent nerfs.

The rotation expansion will probably be the first one he wasn't involved in at all, so that could be the bellwether of what is to come.
https://imgur.com/a/t6tS6vK

On an alt account, 7 of my 9 classes don't have all the basic cards yet.

Con - Up against tweaked out to the Max Tempo Mage and other decks. Win "A" game as a Shaman. Level 5 Shaman - smoked.

Yeah no. And they say classic decks (cards) stand a chance. And the Being of how godly they are with emotes robbing off every move of a basic card. No Autosquelch yet.
https://imgur.com/a/bxJZpaR

trying a different classic card deck for "A" win as a Level 5 Shaman for a 50 gold quest

Up against a super maxed tweaked Rogue deck.

Keleseth turn 2.

Con - Matchup system, Daily Quest, New Account experience....

Fail

Deathrattle Rogue

https://imgur.com/a/XOz7ZQs

Patterned to perfection.

Keleseth 2
Devilasaur Egg 3
Necromium Blade
Cube
Necro Vial
Full Board 5/5 Devilsaur turn 7

I know its all totally random but....
Con - Its actually not.
No Tyrande in 2018. From the Year of the Kraken to the Year of the Raven, the Hearthstone community has been "patiently" waiting for her return for ages.

Yet no progress has been made over the past TWO years.

Sigh.
01/08/2019 02:38 PMPosted by NightRaven
01/08/2019 02:27 PMPosted by Delfunk
Yeah that those new expansions didnt shake the meta.. means that they kinda doing a power reset.. This is actually a good thing for the long run..

But for the current seasons.. well to each his own.

I am happy they do it

And very happy with the wild bundle.

April will come and most of the playerbase will and are happy pandas..

The whiners and complainers will always be here and find something to complain.. some rare few will have a good constructive topic with valid points.. but most will be just spoiled little first world problem brats :)


10-4 - 100% accurate.


I agree. Though this year has been relatively boring, i see it as a good thing for the future. I think Blizz realized that they can't keep making expansions always more powerful than the previous.

For a power reset, you need to start somehow somewhen. And that will necessarely mean a "boring" year since the 2017 sets had so much powercreeps. 2018 sets were so much paler in comparison...

But when 2019 kicks off and we lose Ungoro, KOFT and KaC, every new expansion will shake the meta more than what we've seen this year, given the cards' overall power level will be lower than what we have been used to (hopefully).

Whether that's Brode's doing or not is irrelevant to me. I just want standard ladder to be a mode i want to play for many more years.
Just to remind everyone in this thread of the obvious white-elephant.

Wild doesn't get April.
There isn't a new garden getting planted for Wild.

Imagine what happened with Rumble...the meta didn't change much right? Or at all? As far as core-cards per deck and not flex-cards.

Wild doesn't get it's core-cards shaken up in April.
Just flex.
Its really bad.

For example. Shadowstepping a Coldlight wont get boxed-out for something-more-milly. Non-aggro perm-suffers (like an 80's acid/bleach-perm, that kind of perm) from Shadow+Light.

For example. Death Knights don't leave Wild. We're stuck with them unless Wild gets attention. What card says "lets simplify your deckbuilding" more than a Death Knight? It's not like you have to 'play xyz cards' to earn their benefit. Just jam the DK and its basically a Quest-completion if drawn. DK Rex is limiting what Beasts get printed in April, and that's no-fun.

Those are just 2 examples of what doesn't leave Wild in April. I think it's safe to say everyone, even brand-new players, are tired of the same-old top-20 meta core packages in this game not-getting-shaken-up, and just getting their surrounding cards swapped (or in stuff like Odd Paladin, not-even-flex got swapped).

Devs, could you consider balancing Wild?
Standard doesn't have enough room to play non-meta unless you want to go Basic/Classic, or like something super-low-power like a class with weak draw, like Priest, and say Pirate-synergy.

We can't build for navigate-your-lethal Miracle Rogue because Auctioneer costs 6 huge mana instead of 5 mana. What's wrong with a deck that has to think about "what happens if you don't have Prep, but have Auctioneer + BS turn-7? What are my outs? How much damage is my charging-deckhand? Does my opponents 20ish armor outweigh my deck's reach?". Etc. This is definitely skill-execution, something that is super-needed in hearthstone. Skill in deckbuilding would be fantastic if stuff like Classic rotation (and not-nerfing) would happen, or new-avenues such as expanding/buffing neutral draw, or tribe synergies for the non-obvious classes for each tribe etc.

We don't want neutrals to be this taunt-filler for Class-synergy, or a buff like Bonemare Shroom-Pow Cobalts and stuff. Tar Creeper I think is entirely best used as an aggro card on a highroll instead of anti-aggro like it was most-likely presented as.

Also, remember Aggro-enabling Baku isn't leaving (for the Standard players out there). So those Baku decks still have that guaranteed no-cards-needed, same as the last Baku-deck for this class hero power opener...that never will feel different from the last one.

8-cost-box-out Big-3: Lich King, Rag, and Kel are not going anywhere. How many times do we have to see these 3 cards to well, get tired of not-seeing almost all of the other 8/9/10 cost minions in the game right?

WBP isn't getting it's Essence or Servitude looked at. They're only going to get stronger. I think in 1-2 years WBP will be so dominant it wont be-possible to beat with whatever future-flex cards come in to that decklist. Right?
01/08/2019 07:13 PMPosted by Thorodan
Just to remind everyone in this thread of the obvious white-elephant.

Wild doesn't get April.
There isn't a new garden getting planted for Wild.


And it was the choice of who plays wild.

Do you wanna make a visit to eternal formats of other card games?

Wild isn't meant for the same player that plays standard.

Wild can be balanced and is a little better than standard right now but it will always be a mix of overpowered cards and combos that should not exist.

Because unlike you think there is a ton of people who enjoy the overpowered feeling of those formats and you don't reach it by nerfing things just because they can annoy people.

Wild balance is achieved by all classes being "equally overpowered" and not by ensuring to have "healthy" decks or experiences.

When everyone is overpowered no one really is.
Based on Standard Mode

Plus
- introduction of +25 new levels for new players to build up their game knowledge and collection
- introduction of various pack bundles to attract different player groups
- introduction of card like WhizzBang to help a certain group of player base
- revised quest rewards
- prelaunch packs opening event - contributed to less congestion during launch day?

Minus
- communication - inconsistent, insensitive, irregular
- introduction of "problematic" cards e.g. shudderwock that encourages uninteractive plays and limits interesting possibilities otherwise
Card game players are weird.

"it's good they are doing a power reset"

Meanwhile people spent money on these expansions, hundreds of dollars.

How about not pushing blatant power creep in the first place? Or admit their mistakes, go back and nerf them and give everyone a nice refund?

Nope, better milk the power creep for all its worth, push 3 useless expansions and get praised for doing a lousy job.
01/08/2019 02:47 PMPosted by Lyrist
>sets are more balanced

Wew lad.

I don't know how you spin the state of the metagame this hard with a straight face. The new sets are trash and so is the metagame. "even with hunter hurr durr durr not as bad hurrrr" no. Hunter is still a third of the metagame. The problem with hunter right now is exactly the same as the problem with pirates and all the other stuff you mentioned - it's everywhere, it's not fun or interesting to play with or against, and a little testing and foresight could have prevented it from being as stupid as it is. But they don't test nearly as much as they should, so it's a mess.


Yep - thanks for getting it. Its soooooo obvious and I find it quite hilarious that people are still defending and trying to spin this current game as a positive. They clearly play Huntard or one of its very few direct counters. What about the REST of the classes or decks that people *might* enjoy playing? Nah, screw them.

Just "git gud" , thats alls you ever hear from the apologists and try-hards. They post these rosy scenarios about how to easily counter Huntard and its usually silly.

Whatever. Been free to play for years and stayng that way. Not a big deal to me. Ill just play here and there and alt-F4 if someone plays a stupid deck. Easy peezy. :)

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