Diversity of Representation in Card Art?

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Take notes, would-be trolls: this is how it is done successfully.

Certainly this particular approach is not particularly tasteful nor very original, but it is evidently effective. Baiting serious and antagonistic responses, instigating conflict while operating under a pretense of irreproachable conduct, and inducing off-topic discussion on a subject that is technically on-topic are all metrics of success.
Keep your social justice warrior bullsh1t out of my fantasy world.
01/19/2019 12:06 PMPosted by Phobetor
Take notes, would-be trolls: this is how it is done successfully.

Certainly this particular approach is not particularly tasteful nor very original, but it is evidently effective. Baiting serious and antagonistic responses, instigating conflict while operating under a pretense of irreproachable conduct, and inducing off-topic discussion on a subject that is technically on-topic are all metrics of success.


Noun: Troll
1. A person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post.

Verb
1. Make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.

So, my area of disagreement, although I'm flattered that you think I'm that conniving; is, once again, that this is an offensive topic. I'm not made uncomfortable by discussing representation in art. I'm not sure why someone would have an immediate, negative or angry response from merely raising the topic.

I'm being genuine. This is a great thing to talk about, and there's no reason to treat it as anything other than a worthy, entertaining and healthy thing to consider.

Furthermore, by marginalizing my viewpoint as simply inflammatory - I think your point fails to respond to the substance of the topic. Which, in turn, causes me to wonder if that reasoning seeks to delegitimize ANY discussion of representation.
01/19/2019 12:10 PMPosted by YourArtTeach
So, my area of disagreement, although I'm flattered that you think I'm that conniving; is, once again, that this is an offensive topic. I'm not made uncomfortable by discussing representation in art. I'm not sure why someone would have an immediate, negative or angry response from merely raising the topic.

The question you raised is not inherently offensive, and should anyone take it as such they probably have issues of their own they should address. However, it is very much provocative by definition, and indeed one of the best examples of a provocative topic and subject given the general political context and disagreement associated with that context.

However, you've hardly been acting appropriately in your comments since the opening post. Accusing people of such morally infelicitous views as white supremacy with no concrete basis, for instance, is hardly characteristic of someone who would like to legitimately engage in a serious discussion.
01/19/2019 12:09 PMPosted by Praetorian
Keep your social justice warrior bullsh1t out of my fantasy world.


To repeat a point, take your complaint to Blizzard. There are plenty of social justice warriors in their employ and their job is to ask this question every day. It was in your fantasy world before I got here, and it will still be there after I'm gone.
This will be an interesting test of forum moderation. Seems like:

1. the entire thread has nothing to do with "play mode" and should either be moved to community discussion or just plain deleted as having no appropriate home on these forums

2. OP clearly should receive a temporary ban of some sort for multiple violations of the code of conduct (calling people white supremecist, klan member, etc. because they don't think discussing diversity in a play mode forum)

But given how timid the moderation is on the auto-squelch thread (allowing a handful of people spew nonsense for 100+ pages, effectively obscuring any posts that have actual content), I won't hold my breath.
Space Ghost Coast to Coast, ya'll.
01/19/2019 12:19 PMPosted by Death
This will be an interesting test of forum moderation. Seems like:

1. the entire thread has nothing to do with "play mode" and should either be moved to community discussion or just plain deleted as having no appropriate home on these forums

2. OP clearly should receive a temporary ban of some sort for multiple violations of the code of conduct (calling people white supremecist, klan member, etc. because they don't think discussing diversity in a play mode forum)


Point 1: totally fair.
01/19/2019 12:27 PMPosted by YourArtTeach
01/19/2019 12:17 PMPosted by Phobetor
However, you've hardly been acting appropriately in your comments since the opening post. Accusing people of such morally infelicitous views as white supremacy with no concrete basis, for instance, is hardly characteristic of someone who would like to legitimately engage in a serious discussion.


The viewpoints that person expressed were boilerplate white nationalist talking points common to many different areas of discussion. I happen to work in a field of employ and live in an area that puts me around people who express white supremacist viewpoints using those exact same thoughts. So, my concrete basis is unfortunately personal experience having conversations with people who sometimes express white supremacist viewpoints. You have to call it when you see it, instead of being meek.

If someone accused me of putting forward a viewpoint in line with white nationalism; I wouldn't take offense at that. I'd, hopefully, look back at what I said and consider if their assessment was fair or not. If it wasn't, maybe attempt to amend or engage the topic so that my debate partner understands that wasn't my intent.

It's not an insult, nor intended to be inflammatory, to call it out where you see it. Even imperfectly, we have to start that conversation whenever wherever possible to make change :)
So, call out "white supremacy" even when that isn't the case, and all parties in the receiving end should simply make amends for your own misinterpretation?

I smell a significant degree of entitlement on your part.
Tossing around the phrase "white privilege" as a way to end debate can backfire...

Just google: david webb white privilege

The CNN fool who knee-jerk used this phrase made herself look like a complete moron.
I certainly hope Blizzard keeps politics out of their game.

The frase "go woke, go broke" exists for a reason.

Most customers don't want any of that !@#$ ruining their fun and utility.
01/19/2019 09:36 AMPosted by YourArtTeach
After playing for a while, I've noticed that Hearthstone has a lack of diversity when representing the human form. Not that Blizzard doesn't think about it at all. I've also noticed a greater variety of female characters, recently. Does Hearthstone have a responsibility to consider race, gender and other types of representation with their card art?

Why? or Why not? Have fun!


So ummm yeah.What deck is your favorite to play and why?:)
01/19/2019 01:04 PMPosted by Wardrum
So, call out "white supremacy" even when that isn't the case, and all parties in the receiving end should simply make amends for your own misinterpretation?

I smell a significant degree of entitlement on your part.


I'm totally fine with doing it imperfectly. Sorry, you feel that I did it at the wrong time or toward the wrong person. I politely disagree with you, my esteemed colleague from Hearthstone land.

I'd have to once again point out hyperbole, one person, one time. So, person, not party or parties. And why not raise the subject as early as possible since it is obviously relevant as you can see by the enthusiastic response.
Space Ghost is the best, really. If you get right down to it.
01/19/2019 01:09 PMPosted by EBSnike
I certainly hope Blizzard keeps politics out of their game.

The frase "go woke, go broke" exists for a reason.

Most customers don't want any of that !@#$ ruining their fun and utility.


I've never heard that phrase. Where is that common? With who? Also, again, I disagree with this being "political." All political parties are ostensibly for equity in the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness.
01/19/2019 01:10 PMPosted by Lucidoxxo


So ummm yeah.What deck is your favorite to play and why?:)


Mostly arena. When you don't have all the cards it levels the field.
I'm not going to get into any of the other points you've made here -- I have some choice views on the matter -- but I will say this about Silver Hand Recruits.

All Silver Hand Recruits look the same because of gameplay and consistency purposes. Making the card art for them looking the exact same across the same unit is reasonable as otherwise people would look at a white Recruit and a black Recruit (or male and female, etc.) as two different units with different effects, and it is not immediately recognizable that they are basically the same.

You could argue that "well, they should make all Recruits black/female/etc. for diversity in card art, then!" One, that's not actually diversity. If I made a game where literally every character is black or Asian, that's not diversity, it's just representing a minority. But it can't be diversity (at least in race) by definition because they are all the same race.

Two, people are used to the current look of Silver Hand Recruits and changing them to look different WILL throw people off who have recently come back to the game.

Three, it will come off as shameless virtue-signaling on Blizzard's part to their playerbase. Blizzard-Activision has already had some problems with this previously (most recently with changing S:76 from Overwatch to gay), so they probably won't do this.
I'm have asian and black friends and they are okay with the way games are made in general.

While i'm think that people who feels the need of representation IN A GAME probably have psychological problems.

I'm also think that there is a ton of creativity unused here that art creators would have in mind.

Recently there was some moves not only by blizzard in that aspect and i'm need to say that companies are having a real challenge when they try to supply that demand and that it is really dificult because characters when forced to much around diversity direction can sometimes feel like a insult to the part of the playerbase that they devs try to "represent" with it.

As a brazilian guy i'm don't know how many times characters inspired on my country did feel this way to me.

Laura from street fighter V is a good example of what i'm stated above if someone feel the need to have one.

I'm will not take my torch or anything against street fighter V but as a brazilian i'm just say that i'm not happy if that is how they view brazil.

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