Mana wyrm nerf did not kill mage

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Mana wyrm needed the nerf. It was too good at 1 Mana. A snowbally 1 drop that pays no price for said snowballiness, with premium 1/3 stats. People need to stop pretending this nerf "killed mage." In reality, the only mage archetype hurt by the nerf was aggro-secret-burn mage, as no other archetype ran the card. The nerf was fine and certainly not the sole reason mage is doing poorly right now
It may not be the sole reason but it was certainly the most significant reason.
Mage wasn't tier 1 before the nerf, now it's like tier 4 at best.
And that? is flatly down to the nerf.
The Mana Wyrm nerf was very annoying, yes. It was a very good reliable 1 drop. I suspect that the real reason for the nerf was to balance out Even/Odd. Think about it, Red Mana Wyrm costs 5 mana, Mana Wyrm costs 2 mana. If a deck truly wishes to utilize the wyrms, but isn't Even or Odd, they got both options. It's a clever little detail I noticed, that I'm keeping a close eye on.

I've played around with post-nerf mana wyrm. People on this forum have downvoted me saying, "Look! I tested it! Mana Wyrm isn't dead! It just may or may not be competitively viable!" But, because I decided to deck build, and attemp to prove something wrong. I got salt salt salt.

Well, no matter. That just means I'm a step ahead of the whiners, strategically speaking. To clarify, at what point in tie the wyrms become competitively viable again, I don't know. They are somewhat playable though. Mark my words, over the course of a few expansions, keep an eye on those cheap mage spells. There are a lot of minions that gain benefits from casting a lot of spells. Mages have more than Wyrms for this kind of deck. That's where the wyrms as a support piece could get dangerous down the road.

But hey, what do I know? I only tested it first hand, and applied logic and reason to some deck building with the wyrms. So, you know. Don't listen to me.

P.S. Thanks for the salt, any downvoters. :)
Yes Mage is flourishing right now, Big Spell Mage is a soul-destroying sub-par Tier 3/4 deck at best. Odd Mage is mediocre and outclassed by most decks, including BSM.

Tempo Mage which was counterable and relied totally on good draws and Aluneth to get it over the line, if you ran out of steam you lost. That was the trade off.

Mana Wyrm was nerfed to enable greedy control & OTK decks to flourish, which have now been nerfed because people said they're OP and anti-fun.

Now you have Hunter's all over the ladder who put as much or more pressure than Tempo Mage with secrets you can't play around and value you can't match via Rexxar and deathrattles.

Tempo Mage wasn't anywhere near as strong when Lackey, Valet and Courier rotated out and was rarely seen at tournaments yet was nerfed anyway.

Therefore the decision to nerf Mana Wyrm appears to be a completely arbitrary decision by a wish-washy design team who can't work out what they want their game to be but this indecision killed the Mage class.

Gets people spending money on packs to re-roll Hunter though, right?
What the guy above me said. They gut Mana Wyrm but look at Hunter Spellstone, Rexxar, and Hunter running away with almost everything go completely untouched. Maybe because of Zul'jin and Oondasta.

Tempo Mage could have some disgusting things, like Wyrm on one (specially with Coin) followed by Kirin Tor with Explosive Runes could be soul crushing. But making Wyrm a 1/2 would have been better, IMO.

Don't know if Big Spell Mage ever went above Tier 2 during the whole cycle. Though some people do bring it to tournaments. Though it's a totally different scenario.

Quest Mage, the Combo deck of Mage, never really went off either.

We are now joking at Druid's misery but at least it was very relevant throughout the cycle Mammoth/Raven. Even Odd Warrior shaped the meta for some time. It can be that Mage was the worst class during the cycle, and that's with stuff like Frost Lich Jaina.

Shaman is less played, but its decks (now a single one) are at least very good.
Of course it didn't. Mage has to be a very weak class to be killed by nerfing one common card and spoilers, mage isn't a weak class.
A 1 mana Mana Wyrm would have to be 1/1 or 0/2 to be remotely balanced. My Wild Baku Tempo Mage would still play it with those stats and it's not like that deck lacks 1 drops.
01/20/2019 11:18 AMPosted by WingedKagout
A 1 mana Mana Wyrm would have to be 1/1 or 0/2 to be remotely balanced. My Wild Baku Tempo Mage would still play it with those stats and it's not like that deck lacks 1 drops.


I love the hyperbole considering mana wyrm actually started out as a 0/3 in beta and it was so unplayable they had to buff it.
01/20/2019 11:36 AMPosted by Geoxyx
01/20/2019 11:18 AMPosted by WingedKagout
A 1 mana Mana Wyrm would have to be 1/1 or 0/2 to be remotely balanced. My Wild Baku Tempo Mage would still play it with those stats and it's not like that deck lacks 1 drops.


I love the hyperbole considering mana wyrm actually started out as a 0/3 in beta and it was so unplayable they had to buff it.

You're absolutely right, nothing that has come out since then has had any impact on how Mage could utilize a 0/3 (or 0/2) for 1 that grows with spells.
Mage was killed by the meta. Even with Mana Wyrm, Mage still wouldn't have a Tier 1 deck.
someone else mentioned odd mage earlier and there is truth in that I think.
Team 5 was intent on pushing odd mage and mana wyrm would have been too good for it so they made it unplayable by raising it to two mana.
Thing is? odd mage is crappy in this meta. I wish team 5 would go back to making good cards that work in multiple decks instead of pushing deck types.
We as players should be able to figure out Our own decks.
I rather thought that was part of the game.
01/20/2019 12:15 PMPosted by Mallenroh
Thing is? odd mage is crappy in this meta.
I suggest you check out HSReplay's latest tier list update. You just might get surprised. I sure did.

https://hsreplay.net/meta/

Seems like Odd Mage is not that bad any more as people like to believe. It Odd Secret Mage is Tier 1 and regular Odd Mage Tier 2.
01/20/2019 10:58 AMPosted by Lanko
What the guy above me said. They gut Mana Wyrm but look at Hunter Spellstone, Rexxar, and Hunter running away with almost everything go completely untouched. Maybe because of Zul'jin and Oondasta.


you didnt list a single snowalling 1 mana card which was why the card was nerfed
01/20/2019 12:52 PMPosted by Boreas
01/20/2019 10:58 AMPosted by Lanko
What the guy above me said. They gut Mana Wyrm but look at Hunter Spellstone, Rexxar, and Hunter running away with almost everything go completely untouched. Maybe because of Zul'jin and Oondasta.


you didnt list a single snowalling 1 mana card which was why the card was nerfed


Yet this 1 mana snowballing was never a problem before.
01/20/2019 02:31 PMPosted by Lanko
01/20/2019 12:52 PMPosted by Boreas
...

you didnt list a single snowalling 1 mana card which was why the card was nerfed


Yet this 1 mana snowballing was never a problem before.


undertaker and to a lesser extent tunnel trogg beg to differ. the timing was off and arguably the nerf was the wrong one but to suggest the 1m snowball effects werent problematic in the past is simply wrong.
01/20/2019 02:38 PMPosted by Swampy
01/20/2019 02:31 PMPosted by Lanko
...

Yet this 1 mana snowballing was never a problem before.


undertaker and to a lesser extent tunnel trogg beg to differ. the timing was off and arguably the nerf was the wrong one but to suggest the 1m snowball effects werent problematic in the past is simply wrong.


I didn't say anywhere 1m snowball weren't problematic in the past. I said Mana Wyrm wasn't a problem before.
01/20/2019 12:47 PMPosted by Siperos
01/20/2019 12:15 PMPosted by Mallenroh
Thing is? odd mage is crappy in this meta.
I suggest you check out HSReplay's latest tier list update. You just might get surprised. I sure did.

https://hsreplay.net/meta/

Seems like Odd Mage is not that bad any more as people like to believe. It Odd Secret Mage is Tier 1 and regular Odd Mage Tier 2.

VS says different. https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-118/
Just out of curiosity, if you could choose, which would you prefer?
  • Mana Wyrm reverted to 1 mana, but is now a 1/2
  • Mana Wyrm nerf reversed, but the card is HoF'd
  • Personally, I'd probably go with 2, but I'm curious to what the community thinks.
    Odd Tempo Smorc Face is Place mage seems to beat me alot. The good old smorc face plan seems decent.
    It should have been nerfed way before it was actually nerfed. A snowballing 1 Drop demands an answer and all the answers to it are Tempo losses or Card Disadvantage. That Tempo or Card loss further trickles down how the game plays out much later leading to basically Mana Wyrm on 1 increases Mage Win Rate by far too much if everything else was even. Basically a turn 1 Mana Wyrm translated into Mage being always 1 step ahead of their opponent and if you played a few games of hearthstone you know what its like playing from behind. You know the games when you were behind, those games where you were able to deal with your opponent board but they continued to get in chip damage on your face while they stayed at 30 and the game basically end 30-0.

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