What if Barnes could only clone 5- or less Cost minions?

Play Mode Discussion
Please Blizzard, consider this. I've been meditating this nerf suggestion for so long, and it looks reasonable after all.

Think about it.
The Resurrect mechanic wouldn't completely die, but you would have an army of Rotten Applebaums, Nexus Hero Saraad's, Lyras and Zilliax's. Definitely more balanced than a Ragnaros swarm.
No Y'shaarj on turn 4, a less polarized matchup vs Control and OTK. You cannot nerf Cold Blood / Flametongue and then expect big priest to be kept in check.

If Shadow Visions also gets changed to Discover a spell in your deck instead of "a copy", a sound limit would be put to the amount of resources Priest has.
Arguably, this would open up space for different deathrattle strats, perhap even using the spirit card.
A turn 3 into Barnes and Rag (or anything else in that deck), that turns into 2 Rags turn 4, is incredibly stupid.
Even Obsidian Statues or LKs are not really worse, either.
It is a deck, that has survived for faaaaaar too long, and only becomes stronger with new cards added.
So Warlock should be the only stat dumper?

In a format where Warlock is dumping giant, after giant, after Void Caller, after Cube, after Gul’dan limiting Priest, Hunter, and Rogue to Zilliax and Sludge Belcher would delete those decks. You don’t play Warlock by any chance?

And your nerf to Shadow Visions is horrible. A 1 mana is a generic discover, for 2 mana Shadow Visions should be better, not worse. For further reference Hunter gets copies of minions on their decks for 3 mana on a 2/2 body.

And anecdotally, I have had both tracker and visions fizzle out due to bottom decked.
Yes nerf that ducking feck already. Its not that you can't ever beat it its the Highroll nature that has very few counters and those counters are only in a few of the classes Mostly Rogue who has Prep Vanish. Of all the deck I play against in Wild Big Priest is the only one that I can't stand because most of the time in not Rogue and don't have access to the only punish fast enough to beat Barnes pulling Y'saarj and even if I am Rogue I don't always have Prep Vanish a 2 card combo to counter a 1 Card High Roll.
02/26/2019 05:17 AMPosted by Marcoscongas
So Warlock should be the only stat dumper?

In a format where Warlock is dumping giant, after giant, after Void Caller, after Cube, after Gul’dan limiting Priest, Hunter, and Rogue to Zilliax and Sludge Belcher would delete those decks. You don’t play Warlock by any chance?

And your nerf to Shadow Visions is horrible. A 1 mana is a generic discover, for 2 mana Shadow Visions should be better, not worse. For further reference Hunter gets copies of minions on their decks for 3 mana on a 2/2 body.

And anecdotally, I have had both tracker and visions fizzle out due to bottom decked.


I have played quite alot of CubeLock.
And yes. It is disgusting, as well. I am not exactly sure, which deck is truly worse (as in perceived player agency).
But this thread is about Big Priest, primarily.
Your concerns are valid, and understandable, though.

There are quite a few problematic decks in Wild.
Killing one, will obviously cause the next best to take that spot.
I don't know.
As you implied. The balance issues are not rooted in a singular deck.
At ranks 2 to 1, I hardly see Barnes. Wish I saw him more often to be honest. It’s everything else that I see. Especially even shaman. You’d think after nerfing flametongue totem you’d see less, I’m not seeing that trend at all.
02/26/2019 05:17 AMPosted by Marcoscongas
So Warlock should be the only stat dumper?

In a format where Warlock is dumping giant, after giant, after Void Caller, after Cube, after Gul’dan limiting Priest, Hunter, and Rogue to Zilliax and Sludge Belcher would delete those decks. You don’t play Warlock by any chance?

And your nerf to Shadow Visions is horrible. A 1 mana is a generic discover, for 2 mana Shadow Visions should be better, not worse. For further reference Hunter gets copies of minions on their decks for 3 mana on a 2/2 body.

And anecdotally, I have had both tracker and visions fizzle out due to bottom decked.


What did you just ask? I main Warlock, and it's a class limited to two resurrect cards, not six. (unless you bounce N'zoth, a move which can be played around, unlike Diamond Spellstone upgrades.)
Once one of those turn3 Giants is played, it doesn't come back from the graveyard. Aggro will ignore it and Control will remove it (SW:D, shield slam, polymorph, naturalize) most of the times.

Also, the change on Shadow Visions wasn't my idea. Terrible nerf, you say? It would actually become a tutor and allow deck thinning, so it's kind of a buff on one hand, and a decent nerf on the other (three psy screams and three mind blasts? No thanks)
resurrect mechanic is such bull.

if a 1/1 dies and you resurrect it, then it should remain as 1/1...
02/26/2019 06:09 AMPosted by blackveiled

What did you just ask? I main Warlock, and it's a class limited to two resurrect cards, not six. (unless you bounce N'zoth, a move which can be played around, unlike Diamond Spellstone upgrades.)
Once one of those turn3 Giants is played, it doesn't come back from the graveyard.

Seriously? Warlock playing giants on turn 3/4 complains about Big Priest.

No. Thread over.
02/26/2019 08:06 AMPosted by Silverangel
02/26/2019 06:09 AMPosted by blackveiled

What did you just ask? I main Warlock, and it's a class limited to two resurrect cards, not six. (unless you bounce N'zoth, a move which can be played around, unlike Diamond Spellstone upgrades.)
Once one of those turn3 Giants is played, it doesn't come back from the graveyard.

Seriously? Warlock playing giants on turn 3/4 complains about Big Priest.

No. Thread over.

Well most Cubelocks (Resurrect focused) doesn't run Giants in Wild so those are two different deck/cheat mechanics at work.

02/26/2019 06:09 AMPosted by blackveiled
Also, the change on Shadow Visions wasn't my idea. Terrible nerf, you say? It would actually become a tutor and allow deck thinning, so it's kind of a buff on one hand, and a decent nerf on the other (three psy screams and three mind blasts? No thanks)

I think this is a better usage of SV. SV is better than a tutor card right now because it makes a copy. I think this would tone SV down a bit without destroying the card.
02/26/2019 06:09 AMPosted by blackveiled
02/26/2019 05:17 AMPosted by Marcoscongas
So Warlock should be the only stat dumper?

In a format where Warlock is dumping giant, after giant, after Void Caller, after Cube, after Gul’dan limiting Priest, Hunter, and Rogue to Zilliax and Sludge Belcher would delete those decks. You don’t play Warlock by any chance?

And your nerf to Shadow Visions is horrible. A 1 mana is a generic discover, for 2 mana Shadow Visions should be better, not worse. For further reference Hunter gets copies of minions on their decks for 3 mana on a 2/2 body.

And anecdotally, I have had both tracker and visions fizzle out due to bottom decked.


What did you just ask? I main Warlock, and it's a class limited to two resurrect cards, not six. (unless you bounce N'zoth, a move which can be played around, unlike Diamond Spellstone upgrades.)
Once one of those turn3 Giants is played, it doesn't come back from the graveyard. Aggro will ignore it and Control will remove it (SW:D, shield slam, polymorph, naturalize) most of the times.

Also, the change on Shadow Visions wasn't my idea. Terrible nerf, you say? It would actually become a tutor and allow deck thinning, so it's kind of a buff on one hand, and a decent nerf on the other (three psy screams and three mind blasts? No thanks)


So I was right! I suspected this had nothing to do with balance but about you wanting Warlock to have the monopoly on big minions while removing your bad matchups from Priest, Hunter, and Rogue.

Of course you also want to throw Shadow Visions under the bus since why not nerf Reno too, another tough Warlock matchup.
02/26/2019 05:17 AMPosted by Marcoscongas
So Warlock should be the only stat dumper?

Nobody is saying Warlock should be the only stat dumper.

The argument is that Barnes should be toned down a little since he's disrupting Wild so much - and he will continue to as Blizz prints more scary minions for him to clone.

Which is perfectly fair to me.
02/26/2019 01:45 AMPosted by blackveiled
If Shadow Visions also gets changed to Discover a spell in your deck instead of "a copy", a sound limit would be put to the amount of resources Priest has.

Very correct decision.
02/26/2019 05:17 AMPosted by Marcoscongas
So Warlock should be the only stat dumper?

In the wild mode, any deck can compete with warlock. But the big priest remained the only unbalanced deck of the regime.
barnes should summon an "actor" which is a 1/1 and apart from that identical to the minion copied. This way the resurrected minion would be the 1/1 actor and not a 8/8 lich king or ragnaros
Also this nerf would thematically fit a lot better to barnes
02/26/2019 12:40 PMPosted by Marcoscongas
So I was right! I suspected this had nothing to do with balance but about you wanting Warlock to have the monopoly on big minions while removing your bad matchups from Priest, Hunter, and Rogue.

Of course you also want to throw Shadow Visions under the bus since why not nerf Reno too, another tough Warlock matchup.


Are you seriously implying I wrote this thread for the sole purpose of whining about "my counter"?

Renolock has no access to things such as Mass Hysteria or Psychic Scream. Cube Hunter and Tempo Mage can put enough pressure on my gameplan to call it a win. Reno Priest, Control Priest and a well piloted aggro can take me down like nothing. Still, all of those decks are perfectly fine to me and I only wanted to suggest changes for a widely disliked Priest strategy.
02/26/2019 01:42 PMPosted by blackveiled
02/26/2019 12:40 PMPosted by Marcoscongas
So I was right! I suspected this had nothing to do with balance but about you wanting Warlock to have the monopoly on big minions while removing your bad matchups from Priest, Hunter, and Rogue.

Of course you also want to throw Shadow Visions under the bus since why not nerf Reno too, another tough Warlock matchup.


Are you seriously implying I wrote this thread for the sole purpose of whining about "my counter"?

Renolock has no access to things such as Mass Hysteria or Psychic Scream. Cube Hunter and Tempo Mage can put enough pressure on my gameplan to call it a win. Reno Priest, Control Priest and a well piloted aggro can take me down like nothing. Still, all of those decks are perfectly fine to me and I only wanted to suggest changes for a widely disliked Priest strategy.
Still makes you a whiner. Fact.
02/26/2019 01:42 PMPosted by blackveiled
02/26/2019 12:40 PMPosted by Marcoscongas
So I was right! I suspected this had nothing to do with balance but about you wanting Warlock to have the monopoly on big minions while removing your bad matchups from Priest, Hunter, and Rogue.

Of course you also want to throw Shadow Visions under the bus since why not nerf Reno too, another tough Warlock matchup.


Are you seriously implying I wrote this thread for the sole purpose of whining about "my counter"?

Renolock has no access to things such as Mass Hysteria or Psychic Scream. Cube Hunter and Tempo Mage can put enough pressure on my gameplan to call it a win. Reno Priest, Control Priest and a well piloted aggro can take me down like nothing. Still, all of those decks are perfectly fine to me and I only wanted to suggest changes for a widely disliked Priest strategy.


Yes, I am implying a Warlock player would come to the forum to ask for Priest nerfs because of bad matchups.

A Shadow Visions nerf is 5 times a bigger issue for Reno Priest than Big Priest, for obvious reasons.

Renolock uses Zola and Glinda, sometimes with Brann, to duplicate minions in the same way. Of course you have to draw them first, I wonder how hard that is when your Hero Power lets you draw cards. So once again, it sure looks like you want Warlock to monopolize duplication as well.

02/26/2019 12:47 PMPosted by Swift
02/26/2019 05:17 AMPosted by Marcoscongas
So Warlock should be the only stat dumper?

Nobody is saying Warlock should be the only stat dumper.

The argument is that Barnes should be toned down a little since he's disrupting Wild so much - and he will continue to as Blizz prints more scary minions for him to clone.

Which is perfectly fair to me.


No to nerfs to Wild Warlock counters right now!

4 of 7 Tier 1 decks in the last Tempostorm Wild Snapshot (the last VS report was 2 of 7 before the Shaman and Rogue nerfs).

They are more consistent dumping stats without needing Barnes, taking out Barnes just means all of a sudden Priest, Rogue, and Hunter lose access to stat dumping.

I will admit I play Rogue, Hunter, and Priest; and not Warlock.
Barnes/resurrect priest is one of the few decks i wish to see unplayable. Imo making barnes 6 mana would solve the problem permanently.

02/26/2019 12:40 PMPosted by Marcoscongas
So I was right! I suspected this had nothing to do with balance but about you wanting Warlock to have the monopoly on big minions while removing your bad matchups from Priest, Hunter, and Rogue.


So much nonsense here ....... Every class in wild has the tools to deal with warlock. Still no class/archetype has the tools to deal with Barnes priest. And indeed while warlock (even warlock is the best choise in wild imo) has higher winrate than barnes priest the problem remains ''what to do with a round 4 barnes?'' and the answer is ''just concede''.
Yes, I am implying a Warlock player would come to the forum to ask for Priest nerfs because of bad matchups.


Joke's on you. I would adapt to the meta if I cared about climbing this season. I'm sitting on 10000 godforsaken dust, yshaarj + double shadow visions + double scream and my deck is complete, no big expense. Or else, I could invest in Kingsbane + Southsea Cap ×2 + Leeroy. Or Aya + jades for Even Shaman.

What would be the point in me whining, if I'm not ranking up atm? Explain.

To suggest doesn't equal to whine. Dozens of players have come here crying and insulting the devs with far worse attitude, as if their adolescent daughter had somehow taken hold of their keyboards. Then I bring myself to write my own tactful post about the situation, and you come here comparing me to said whiners? I might as well uninstall. Don't make me laugh.
02/26/2019 02:01 PMPosted by Balmain
Still makes you a whiner. Fact.


Now go back to Play Mode Discussion, pick a real whine thread and compare its vocab and tone of voice with that of my suggestion.
Do they sound the same? Do they? Does a "what if" sound like a "this is BS / im leaving / this dumpster is dying / durrrr nothing requires skill here"? Fact.

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