Suggestion: Baku also makes your Hero Power cost (3). Genn also downgrades your hero power.

Play Mode Discussion
Altering the costs and effects of Genn and Baku would not only make them a little weaker, but also make them symmetrical in a pretty elegant way.

Baku: Upgrade your hero power, and it costs 3.
Genn: Downgrade your hero power, and it costs 1.

Downgraded hero powers for Genn would be something along the lines of:
Paladin: Silver Hand recruits now have 0 attack. (Still VERY buffable.)
Paladin Alternate: Silver Hand recruits can only attack minions.
Warlock: Draw a card. Take 4 damage.
Mage: Deal one damage to minions only.
Priest: Restore 1 health to a target.
Priest Alternate: Restore 2 health to a minion.
Warrior: Gain 1 armor.
Hunter: Deal 1 damage to the enemy hero.
Druid: Choose 1: Gain 1 attack, or Gain 1 armor. (A direct upgrade to some others but whatever, Even Druid isn't gonna eat the meta any time soon.)
Druid Alternate: Gain 1 attack or Gain 1 armor (alternates each turn).
Rogue: Equip a 1/1 weapon.
Shaman: Totems are now 0/1, except for Searing Totem. Searing Totem can only attack minions.

I think this is a great direction to take, a nerf that preserves the spirit of the cards and alters the even/odd deck archetypes without literally removing them from the game. It also opens up design space for "downgraded hero power" in the future, as well as slows Baku's early game impact. Feedback is appreciated.
Horrible idea by someone without any background or knowledge in trading card game mechanics. Delete this before n more see it and you are further embarrassed by your ignorance and poorly constructed ideas .
Genn doesn't need to be lumped in with Baku...
Personally I think you could have stopped at cost three all that other stuff is just wayyyyyyy to much.
02/23/2019 01:38 PMPosted by Monday
Horrible idea by someone without any background or knowledge in trading card game mechanics. Delete this before n more see it and you are further embarrassed by your ignorance and poorly constructed ideas .


I'm not sure if this is a copypasta but if not, that was... very abrasive. I am glad to hear criticism but I would prefer if you focused on why the idea is bad rather then merely stating that it is and calling me ignorant.
Pffft BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

No. Terrible ideas that wouldn't just make the cards "a little bit weaker" but straight out KILL the cards in question. You might as well HoF them early instead.
02/23/2019 01:53 PMPosted by Siperos
Pffft BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

No. Terrible ideas that wouldn't just make the cards "a little bit weaker" but straight out KILL the cards in question. You might as well HoF them early instead.


Well there's a key problem: Genn and Baku are running absolutely rampant in Wild right now, so Hall of Faming them just takes the problem and shoves it somewhere else. If you'll recall the rallying cry right before Patches got nerfed, "Wild is not your dumping ground."
Just put a "LIMIT" on how many times you can use the hero power. Baku-5 Gen-6 times you can use the upgraded hero power and after you use up all the hero powers it goes back to your original hero power. It allows players to still have their early game curve but also gives your opponent a chance to survive the aggression after LIMIT is used and then eventually overcome the hero power. Just my opinion.
02/23/2019 02:08 PMPosted by regalado7
Just put a "LIMIT" on how many times you can use the hero power. Baku-5 Gen-6 times you can use the upgraded hero power and after you use up all the hero powers it goes back to your original hero power. It allows players to still have their early game curve but also gives your opponent a chance to survive the aggression after LIMIT is used and then eventually overcome the hero power. Just my opinion.

So you halve the effective amount of cards that can be in your deck (baku removes all even and Genn removes all odd) for 5-6 better hero power uses? Not an effective trade off whatsoever.
By the way, I'm getting a lot of very passionate responses angled at me personally, so I wanted to clarify something:

The cards actually don't bother me very much personally. I run a lot of decks with Genn and Baku myself. But a lot of people are calling for their nerfs, and that sends me into a panic spiral due to the classic Blizzard 'warsong commander' approach if they can't think of a good enough angle. I'm proposing this nerf because I like these cards, and I don't want to see their functionality removed entirely, which is a very real possibility.
With your Genn, you're not toning down the payoff, in most cases you're taking it away entirely.

With Baku it makes it much, MUCH more difficult to push the button ever, maybe only against a ResidentSleeper deck that plays like Odd Warrior. Would you ever push the button over playing a 3-cost card, like Black Cat or Tar Creeper? If no, then what's the point?
Hero power should cost 3 and have a one turn cooldown for Baku.
Hero power is fine for Genn.
02/23/2019 02:20 PMPosted by Rozenkranc
With your Genn, you're not toning down the payoff, in most cases you're taking it away entirely.

With Baku it makes it much, MUCH more difficult to push the button ever, maybe only against a ResidentSleeper deck that plays like Odd Warrior. Would you ever push the button over playing a 3-cost card, like Black Cat or Tar Creeper? If no, then what's the point?


Hero powers aren't good because they're competitive with cards at the same cost (would you play a 2 mana 1/1 with no effect?), they're good because they're something you can do every turn while completely maintaining your card economy, while also being a persistent build-around tool for each class.
Genn and Baku messed with this dynamic by providing more value for cost, but now represent a titanic proportion of Tier 1 decks in both standard and wild (especially for neutral cards), as well as limiting design space.
The changes I propose take the teeth out of altered hero powers and set them back to being interesting build-arounds. Anyway, that's the point.
02/23/2019 01:53 PMPosted by Siperos
Pffft BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

No. Terrible ideas that wouldn't just make the cards "a little bit weaker" but straight out KILL the cards in question. You might as well HoF them early instead.

This reminds me of something that is popular in Twitch chat: "Give golden cards some small bonus that doesn't effect gameplay much, like +1 attack or -1 mana". This here in reverse.
Original post destroys these cards to the point of be unplayable. Especially gen genn options which are universally worse than just having the normal hero power at the normal cost.

If you’re gonna go with the “nuke from orbit” approach you might as well just remove them from the card pool.
Or better yet:
Git gud
or
Uninstall
Think of it this way, OP. By playing Genn and only even cards, which is a major limitation, you would gain...

Nothing. Essentially a half cost, half powered hero power. Does it make sense at all? A shorter post would just be, “remove these cards.” Not that I would be opposed to removing them, but I’d rather have them removed than nerfed to ridiculousness.
Absolutely worthless idea.

Silver hand recruits can only attack minions? You can just ignore them then and in fact if they get 7 recruits they literally cant win the game.

Draw a card take 4 damage to save 1 mana???

Warrior gain 1 armor lulz.

Seriously this is the worst nerf idea in the history of nerf ideas.
Upgraded hero powers should be looked at individual level and baku text changed to a "scary upgrade" so it indicates that the hero power pool isn't the same as justicar.

Like:

Baku:
Warrior : gain 3 armor
Paladin: summon a 1/2

Also all upgrades gain a visual rework so you know when it is justicar effect and when is baku effect.

Also nerf shaman and warlock basic hero powers:

Shaman: basic totens have 1 health.
Warlock: lifetap causes 3 damage to your hero instead of 2.

Before someone say:

This isn't the first time that warlock hero power causes people wanting cards nerfed so it isn't the only " because genn".

And while shaman basic hero power never caused any real problem 0/2 with a extra effect is worth a 1 mana card and normal hero powers are worth a 0 mana card.
Upgraded hero powers should be looked at individual level and baku text changed to a "scary upgrade" so it indicates that the hero power pool isn't the same as justicar.

Like:

Baku:
Warrior : gain 3 armor
Paladin: summon a 1/2

Also all upgrades gain a visual rework so you know when it is justicar effect and when is baku effect.

Also nerf shaman and warlock basic hero powers:

Shaman: basic totens have 1 health.
Warlock: lifetap causes 3 damage to your hero instead of 2.

Before someone say:

This isn't the first time that warlock hero power causes people wanting cards nerfed so it isn't the only " because genn".

And while shaman basic hero power never caused any real problem 0/2 with a extra effect is worth a 1 mana card and normal hero powers are worth a 0 mana card.


that's just not true:

1/1 totem is worth exactly 0 mana
0/2 taunt is also worth 0 mana seeing as 0/2 taunt divine shield is worth 1 mana
0/2 healing and sp don't have equivalents, but are again around 0 mana.

and then you add that you get a RANDOM out of the 4, diminushing their value even more.

there's areason shaman hero power is considered the weakest hero power. You get the same value (0) as the rest, but you add the randomness on top of it as an extra negative.
02/23/2019 01:42 PMPosted by Cubit
02/23/2019 01:38 PMPosted by Monday
Horrible idea by someone without any background or knowledge in trading card game mechanics. Delete this before n more see it and you are further embarrassed by your ignorance and poorly constructed ideas .


I'm not sure if this is a copypasta but if not, that was... very abrasive. I am glad to hear criticism but I would prefer if you focused on why the idea is bad rather then merely stating that it is and calling me ignorant.

02/23/2019 05:05 PMPosted by RedSpade
Or better yet:
Git gud
or
Uninstall


This is why OP ^^

This game is populated heavily by "undesirables", I think you'll understand what I mean by that.

As far as your topic, tbh we really need to know what "new" cards we're getting in April to come to a logical solution to the powercreep that is Genn/Baku. Whatever we propose might be the worst proposal due to us not knowing what's to come etc. Knowing Blizzard, they'll probably do nothing about them until a month or two after the next expansion comes out so they can gauge the overall effect of Genn/Baku with the new cards etc.

Personally I'd love for them to get rid of both, but I'd rather they address OTK/combo decks first before Genn/Baku. OTK is/has taken over, there's very little counters to these. However, Genn/Baku does have counters etc, you can realistically build decks to counter these etc.

Cheers o/

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