Why is "AFK until I OTK" even allowed to exist?

Play Mode Discussion
@ilikeeggs

Just no, I'm not even going to re quote you.

Sometimes things happen they way you stated, sure. Sometimes not.

But it's not a control situation entirely, no.
02/08/2019 11:12 AMPosted by RinseWizard
There's a subset of people that like pulling off combos, not minion trading or tempo building.
I blame Yu-Gi-Oh.

nah, even in yu-gi-oh, konami made a complete hate-ban, preemptive strikes included, to most FTK and combos, blizz should also directly ban OTK combos, other combos are fine
02/08/2019 11:53 AMPosted by Right
02/08/2019 11:42 AMPosted by Tman15tmb
... Spot on. Couldn't have said it better myself.


This is all fine and good. You could also take a baseball bat onto the basketball court and start swinging, but it's not really how basketball should be played, nor is it fair.

But if we all had bats!

If you want a welfare game where wins are handed to you...

I get the bandwagon mentality. It's just sad.

"But it works and I win and I want packs and I have a small ego and wins make it bigger and I say well played to the try hards when they had no chance of disrupting my plan because the game is broken!"

Very proud of you.
What the heck are you rambling about? If you need someone to talk to I can assure you that I'm probably the last person you want to vent to. I'd try another thread.
02/08/2019 02:31 PMPosted by RhokDelar
02/08/2019 11:12 AMPosted by RinseWizard
There's a subset of people that like pulling off combos, not minion trading or tempo building.
I blame Yu-Gi-Oh.

nah, even in yu-gi-oh, konami made a complete hate-ban, preemptive strikes included, to most FTK and combos, blizz should also directly ban OTK combos, other combos are fine


there arent any ftk on HS
I find it unsettling that there is absolutely no trace of self-awareness in the heavily biased control players when they complain about combo decks, not only because their play style also completely removes meaningful interaction when facing aggro (and midrange these days, for that matter), but also because combo decks' ability to stall and survive ("AFK") is consequent of broken control tools adopted by said combo decks.

No, you do not deserve free wins against an archetype to which your own should be vulnerable, especially when the alternative of midrange is completely marginalized (Standard) or outright dead (Wild); and no, you do not get to decide what is and is not fun for other players.

If you want to crush aggro decks in ridiculously polarized match-ups and not even worry about midrange decks posing a threat, then you will also have to accept that combo decks will obliterate you with equal dichotomy. The playerbase had at least two-and-a-half control metagames in a row, and now combo-control and combo has finally begun to fill in the vacuum to address the previously unchecked prevalence of control.
02/08/2019 11:36 AMPosted by Lanko
They are allowed to exist otherwise infinite vampirism with Frost Lich Jaina, Bloodreaver Gul'dan and infinite Armoring Up or near infinite Amaras/Benedictus would run away with the game.

Almost everytime someone complains about OTK, they are playing a do-nothing-but-remove fatigue Control deck.

They complain about polarization against OTK, but completely ignore it when said polarization favours them against Aggro/Midrange.
They complain about lack of tech to interact with Combo (that's usually a "I win" on the spot card, not really a tech like Zihi) and also forget that Aggro/Midrange don't have techs against lifegain, armor, or anything of the sort as well.

Also, the game just being minion vs minion and minion vs removal until one gets exhausted could make the game get old and boring fast. A lot of combos (like Togwaggle swapping decks, Ress sequences, and etc) make the game much more interesting and unique.
This. Have an upvote!
02/08/2019 10:53 AMPosted by Sagevallant
"Why are decks I don't like allowed to exist?"

Because people who don't think like you would also like to play the game. Same as how I accepted that aggro decks are allowed to exist.


It's not only that. Blizzard has nerfed decks for being non-interactive. I think the community just wants consistency.
02/08/2019 10:33 AMPosted by Right
Exactly.

There shouldn't be a scenerio where you can afford to take turns 1-5 off, wipe the board, go get a soda, take turns 6-7 off, wipe the board, go take a crap. Then come back and play 3 cards and OTK.


Lovin it that the low-bar OTK's are getting exposed.

OTK's that have to draw like 6 7 8 cards and emperor those cards down are totally-high bar so therefore fair.

OTK's that don't even need emperor, like what 100 percent of the standard OTK's are, shouldn't be allowed when they're that-easy to assemble. At least topsy takes execution fwiw.

You want OTK's in the game, they have their place, IF their bar is high.
Meaning, their bar is not just "k grab these cards once I have them play em no discount needed'.

Also, the classes that have those OTK's shouldn't have those types of board clears alternatively.

Super-easy meta OTK's are lame.
Non-meta harder OTK's are cool because they take a lot more setup and aren't expected / require certain board states or health totals...you know...thinking.
Meta OTK's are lame.
Meta Death Knights are lame they push OTK on the player.
DK Rex pushes 'play OTK to trade with this if u don't want to aggro".
SO gross n not rocket-science!

Devs please speak about this? About DK Rex pushing OTK? FLJ pushing OTK? DK-Dan pushing OTK? Speak on your box-out cards that you...nerf classic for some reason instead? Don't protect the box-outs...Wild doesn't get-rid-of-them.
02/08/2019 02:44 PMPosted by Tman15tmb
02/08/2019 11:53 AMPosted by Right
...

This is all fine and good. You could also take a baseball bat onto the basketball court and start swinging, but it's not really how basketball should be played, nor is it fair.

But if we all had bats!

If you want a welfare game where wins are handed to you...

I get the bandwagon mentality. It's just sad.

"But it works and I win and I want packs and I have a small ego and wins make it bigger and I say well played to the try hards when they had no chance of disrupting my plan because the game is broken!"

Very proud of you.
What the heck are you rambling about? If you need someone to talk to I can assure you that I'm probably the last person you want to vent to. I'd try another thread.


looks like the type of random rant someone posts when they dont have any other answer
02/08/2019 02:44 PMPosted by Tman15tmb
02/08/2019 11:53 AMPosted by Right
...

This is all fine and good. You could also take a baseball bat onto the basketball court and start swinging, but it's not really how basketball should be played, nor is it fair.

But if we all had bats!

If you want a welfare game where wins are handed to you...

I get the bandwagon mentality. It's just sad.

"But it works and I win and I want packs and I have a small ego and wins make it bigger and I say well played to the try hards when they had no chance of disrupting my plan because the game is broken!"

Very proud of you.
What the heck are you rambling about? If you need someone to talk to I can assure you that I'm probably the last person you want to vent to. I'd try another thread.


I have an idea. If you don't want people responding to things you say... shut your mouth!

Try it!
OTK’s are not good for hearthstone. What people seem to misunderstand is that OTK’s are fine in principle; there’s no problem in winning a card game in one turn, lots of other games have them. However, Hearthstone is not other games; in other games there are a variaty of ways for one player to interrupt, interact and disrupt play in the other players turn putting OTK’s at risk unless played right. Yugioh for example is rife with OTK’s but it has traps cards, hand traps, quick spells and monster effects which all allow you a route to disrupt your opponents turn and prevent OTK’s. Hearthstone does not. It’s too basic a game. Players are far too safe in the knowledge there is nothing the other player can do if they just play mill and sustain cards until they play their combo all because the developers didn’t think far enough ahead to prevent this kind of situation.

Whilst there might be players who “want to play OTK”, I don’t believe they really want to play it in this game, they just know it’s an easy way to win. I can’t see anyone finding it genuinely fun to not play with their opponent and fumble through their deck until they have no cards left. However, hearthstone is not a game which promotes “the spirit of the game”, it’s too heavy with s*tty card design and poor oversight that most of these OTK’s just happen when people exploit mechanics that the developers were too lazy/stupid to figure out when they s*itting these cards out. And when they are found and brought to notice they are too lazy to deal with (until it hurts a later expansions sales figures).
02/08/2019 05:50 PMPosted by Facehunter
OTK’s are not good for hearthstone. What people seem to misunderstand is that OTK’s are fine in principle; there’s no problem in winning a card game in one turn, lots of other games have them. However, Hearthstone is not other games; in other games there are a variaty of ways for one player to interrupt, interact and disrupt play in the other players turn putting OTK’s at risk unless played right. Yugioh for example is rife with OTK’s but it has traps cards, hand traps, quick spells and monster effects which all allow you a route to disrupt your opponents turn and prevent OTK’s. Hearthstone does not. It’s too basic a game. Players are far too safe in the knowledge there is nothing the other player can do if they just play mill and sustain cards until they play their combo all because the developers didn’t think far enough ahead to prevent this kind of situation.

Whilst there might be players who “want to play OTK”, I don’t believe they really want to play it in this game, they just know it’s an easy way to win. I can’t see anyone finding it genuinely fun to not play with their opponent and fumble through their deck until they have no cards left. However, hearthstone is not a game which promotes “the spirit of the game”, it’s too heavy with s*tty card design and poor oversight that most of these OTK’s just happen when people exploit mechanics that the developers were too lazy/stupid to figure out when they s*itting these cards out. And when they are found and brought to notice they are too lazy to deal with (until it hurts a later expansions sales figures).
Again it being an "easy way to win" is a myth perpetuated by the control master race. Combo decks tend to be MORE difficult to pilot than your average deck. If you think decks like Odd Warrior are any fairer or harder to pilot, you're blinded by bias. Seriously guys it is HS. Pull the stick out of your butt.
If I'm at 30 (or more) life at the beginning of my opponents turn it should be impossible for them to win on that turn, period
02/08/2019 10:53 AMPosted by Sagevallant
"Why are decks I don't like allowed to exist?"

Because people who don't think like you would also like to play the game. Same as how I accepted that aggro decks are allowed to exist.


Because aggro decks are fast so even if control lose to it, its a fast painful lost. Otk decks are long boring matches just for the value midrange or control to lose, a long painful lost.
02/08/2019 10:56 AMPosted by SolutionS
Its funny Cause I was playing Vs a Priest that Seemingly went afk and roped each turn up to turn 6, I thought He must have DC'd but no he came back and killed me in one turn after stalling 2-3 more turns. I mean he didnt have to do much except rely on his draw rng.


I find that extremely rude for them to rope all of the early turns. I think they are hoping that you will think that DC'd so that you will overplay your hand. When someone ropes the early turns like that, I play conservatively and I also rope back so that they know I am not fooled by them pretending not to be there. It's very annoying, though.
Same reason why "AFK until you fatigue/ran out of minions" is allowed to exist.
02/08/2019 10:55 AMPosted by Schyla
02/08/2019 10:53 AMPosted by Sagevallant
"Why are decks I don't like allowed to exist?"

Because people who don't think like you would also like to play the game. Same as how I accepted that aggro decks are allowed to exist.


Failed to read the post I see. Go back and try again. I absolutely love facing Mecha'thun warlock.


I to am okay with decks I beat and dislike ones I lose to.
02/08/2019 07:56 PMPosted by aoXSlo
02/08/2019 10:53 AMPosted by Sagevallant
"Why are decks I don't like allowed to exist?"

Because people who don't think like you would also like to play the game. Same as how I accepted that aggro decks are allowed to exist.


Because aggro decks are fast so even if control lose to it, its a fast painful lost. Otk decks are long boring matches just for the value midrange or control to lose, a long painful lost.

but short games are boring !
when games end by turn 4-5 i barely starting to play !
02/08/2019 07:30 PMPosted by URjustSOL
If I'm at 30 (or more) life at the beginning of my opponents turn it should be impossible for them to win on that turn, period
You mean "if they have no board", right?

I mean, I still fundamentally disagree either way. "Trying not to lose" is not a win condition.

If you want to decry lopsided matchups, I agree with that sentiment. But that is not fixed by nerfing every single attempt at developing a OTK deck. Because if OTK weren't an option, and the metagame were still very slow, it would just be about which deck could accumulate the most value. And the highest-value deck will be highly favored against any other very slow deck. So "no OTK" is not actually a solution if the problem you're trying to solve is "matchups where your choices don't matter".

Instead, Blizzard needs to cultivate an environment that rewards decks that play dynamically. Like Cubelock, Miracle Rogue, Maly Druid, and Token Druid. Even the current version of Midrange Hunter has a lot of dynamic capability, because it mixes up card draw, face damage, and various synergies.

But in order to truly do that well, we need more strategies that rely on holding a board. More midrange strategies. And that requires that control tools be weaker and less ubiquitous. Because when decks are punished too much for trying to establish board presence, you end up with a metagame filled with greedy decks. And the greediest of these is going to have a large advantage over the rest of them, regardless of whether it is OTK or not.
02/08/2019 04:21 PMPosted by Boreas
02/08/2019 02:31 PMPosted by RhokDelar
...
nah, even in yu-gi-oh, konami made a complete hate-ban, preemptive strikes included, to most FTK and combos, blizz should also directly ban OTK combos, other combos are fine


there arent any ftk on HS

picky with words I see: obviously no FTK on HS, but you know what I mean: gallery combo, mecha'thun combos, exodia combos, etc -they need a forced stop, waiting til rotation won't do

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