Is it okay to have some cards not rotate, but instead just be removed?

Play Mode Discussion
I am not against removing the cards but I think they could be solved in more creative ways.

such as "baku: when you draw this card upgrade your hero power, if it leaves your control for any reason restore your original heropower"

there! you have to draw it so don't start with super aggressive advantage every single game, they have reason to not drop a super large body that also needs an answer, it can be taken out of the game with demonic project like cards.
01/31/2019 04:38 PMPosted by Mand
Genn/Baku, looking at you.

Would the long-term upside for Wild outweigh the "OMG YOU KILLED MY FAVORITE CARD" response that some people would have?

100% dust refund would have to be a given.


I prefer a rotation. It 'forces" the dev to keep in mind the power level and it's after effects on the game after the rotation. However, I am "afraid" that is not the priority in the Dev's mind.

I was quite displease that how Dev allowed Patches to operate as it is and "suddenly" nerf it as it goes into rotation. The displeasure is more of how it allows future cards to be designed on the same principal. If patches would cause a problem going forward, does it had not caused any problem prior to the nerf?
01/31/2019 06:54 PMPosted by First123
As I don't play wild, I can only look at the data. Most convenient being vs wild report 115

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/wild-vs-data-reaper-report-15/

What I see is that while some classes do use genn and/or baku, not every class does.


did you happen to look at the top 4 decks in that report?

odd rogue
even shaman
odd paladin
even warlock

while not all classes are using genn/baku decks in wild they are the best decks within the format according to the source you provided - i personally think anyfin pally comes in at 3 but thats not what your source says.

so convince me that genn and baku are not problematic in wild based on the source you provided.
01/31/2019 07:32 PMPosted by Swampy
01/31/2019 06:54 PMPosted by First123
As I don't play wild, I can only look at the data. Most convenient being vs wild report 115

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/wild-vs-data-reaper-report-15/

What I see is that while some classes do use genn and/or baku, not every class does.


did you happen to look at the top 4 decks in that report?

odd rogue
even shaman
odd paladin
even warlock

while not all classes are using genn/baku decks in wild they are the best decks within the format according to the source you provided - i personally think anyfin pally comes in at 3 but thats not what your source says.

so convince me that genn and baku are not problematic in wild based on the source you provided.


Seriously.
Especially even shaman in wild. that thing is a monster
Genn is fine

Baku can go
01/31/2019 04:44 PMPosted by Wardrum
01/31/2019 04:41 PMPosted by Geoxyx
Baku and Genn aren't problems... People just don't enjoy the style of decks they create. Justicar has been around for how long? No one seems to complain about her. And every cad will have an even or odd cost.
Justicar's effect doesn't start every game at turn 1 and I think we've proven that as expansions roll on, the odd/even restriction isn't really that big of a setback for quite a few classes.


This

Also They could make new playmodes. Season modes.
Either remove or nerf into oblivion if they're against just deleting cards. For instance make Baku a battle cry instead of start of game lol
Lets do a test deletion.

Start with Prince Keleseth.
Genn and Baku are HORRIBLE designs. Having a improved hero power from turn 1 at a 'drawback' which is not really a drawback is just, bad. Nice idea on paper but in the game, it is NOTHING but another form of cancer.

Delete them both.
I don't know what the hell they were thinking with Genn exactly: he dosn't swap stats each turn as all the other Worgen (that would be really cool) but also should improve the basic hero power like justicar when you DRAW IT (with the odd condition) instead at the start of the game. On each swap should have a different effect "rush" in his Worgen form and Taunt in his Human form.

Baku should improve the hero power (with even condition) when is drawed too and its effect should swap too to Wind Fury and Life Steal each turn.
Baku/Genn aren't problems just because of current strong decks. They're a problem because of how they limit the design space for cards not yet printed, and they're a problem because they lead to balanced cards like Flametongue being nerfed and cards that need a 1 mana nerf like Equality getting a 2 mana nerf.
Refunding dust in this case is useless since there are a huge number of decks being affected and plenty of epics/legendaries (janalai for example) would get indirectly nerfed.

Despite the obvious limitations these 2 cards have, I hope they don't do anything to them because of the huge impact they will have on people's deck (dust/money).
Totally okay to me if Genn and Baku were deleted.
I've got Baku, I used it twice and it was enough. At this point, I don't even care about a dust refund. I would be very happy to see them gone forever.
01/31/2019 07:32 PMPosted by Swampy
01/31/2019 06:54 PMPosted by First123
As I don't play wild, I can only look at the data. Most convenient being vs wild report 115

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/wild-vs-data-reaper-report-15/

What I see is that while some classes do use genn and/or baku, not every class does.


did you happen to look at the top 4 decks in that report?

odd rogue
even shaman
odd paladin
even warlock

while not all classes are using genn/baku decks in wild they are the best decks within the format according to the source you provided - i personally think anyfin pally comes in at 3 but thats not what your source says.

so convince me that genn and baku are not problematic in wild based on the source you provided.


The burden is not on me to convince you though. My post was me asking what people mean by problem, and I was addressing what I thought people might have problems with.

Top 4 are odd/even? Ok, except tier 1 isn't just 4 decks. How many other tier 1 decks are there? 4 as well. You even personally think anyfin belongs in the group, better than one of the 4. In other words, while odd/even are "the best", there are still plenty of other decks that compete with it. They are neither the only decks one must run to win, nor are they the only decks for a certain class to run to win.

Now, there is an argument that specific odd/even decks are problematic, and pointing that odd rogue or even shaman having been at the top for a while would be a strong argument. And that's kinda what Bliz is addressing in the recently announced patch: those specific decks are getting nerfed via changing cards other than baku/genn.
The fact is they really hate nerfing legendaries and refunding dust, just look on the last refundable legendary (Patches?).
There are so many broken DKs, Barnes and other examples that usually mean "FU I win" abd they still won't nerf them.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum