This Game Is Pay-to-Win

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02/20/2019 06:48 PMPosted by Wardrum
One of the best performing decks in the meta right now (Secret Paladin) is also one of the cheapest, coming in at less than 5k dust overall, with everything being commons/rares with the exception of 4 epics and a single legendary.

A newer player simply taking advantage of the initial resources available could have that deck in less than a week.

Pay to win is where you must sink money into the game in order to be competitively viable at all with no other option. I just laid a very solid option out for you.

Pay to experiment? Sure.

Pay for more variety all the time? You betcha!

But while a lot of meta decks have gone uo in average dust cost, this game itself is not "pay to win" when you'll likely have enough dust to craft a legend-worthy deck by the time you unlock Casual mode.


You’ve got a lot of problems in life, don’t you?
02/23/2019 01:13 PMPosted by Monday
02/20/2019 06:48 PMPosted by Wardrum
One of the best performing decks in the meta right now (Secret Paladin) is also one of the cheapest, coming in at less than 5k dust overall, with everything being commons/rares with the exception of 4 epics and a single legendary.

A newer player simply taking advantage of the initial resources available could have that deck in less than a week.

Pay to win is where you must sink money into the game in order to be competitively viable at all with no other option. I just laid a very solid option out for you.

Pay to experiment? Sure.

Pay for more variety all the time? You betcha!

But while a lot of meta decks have gone uo in average dust cost, this game itself is not "pay to win" when you'll likely have enough dust to craft a legend-worthy deck by the time you unlock Casual mode.


You’ve got a lot of problems in life, don’t you?
No more than most folks, I imagine.

You seem to have enough of them to attempt a personal jab at a random person on the internet rather than actually contribute to the discussion at hand, though. Might wanna go get some help with that :)
I bought 0 cards and casually cruise between 5-1 every month, its not pay to win, learn to play.
Like many have said, it's not pay-to-win. The only advantage money gives you is the ability to acquire more cards in a shorter period of time.
Game is obviously pay to win. Both players have unequal starting resources. The largest discrepancy is when a starting player who doesn’t pay faces a player who does pay. It’s the reason I’m legend on NA, and it’s a pain to get past 15 on Asia. My card collection quality on NA is high; and my card quality on Asia is very low.

Could I theoretically craft a tier 1 deck and advance? Yes, but at the cost of making my dailies even harder to complete (there’s already a few classes where I barely win a single game in ranked) because I would have to dust cards from other classes. It’s not a reasonable strategy for collecting cards.
02/23/2019 03:51 PMPosted by VictoriousDN
Could I theoretically craft a tier 1 deck and advance? Yes
This already disproves the game being pay to win.

Pay-to-collect-more-quickly? Sure! But being able to advance doesn't require you to pay. It might take more time to do so for free, but that doesn't mean you cannot do it.
02/23/2019 03:55 PMPosted by Wardrum
02/23/2019 03:51 PMPosted by VictoriousDN
Could I theoretically craft a tier 1 deck and advance? Yes
This already disproves the game being pay to win.

Pay-to-collect-more-quickly? Sure! But being able to advance doesn't require you to pay. It might take more time to do so for free, but that doesn't mean you cannot do it.


No; I’ve already paid for the experience necessary to know which decks/cards to craft. I also have experience playing with most meta decks. A new player could never acquire that without paying.
02/23/2019 04:07 PMPosted by VictoriousDN
02/23/2019 03:55 PMPosted by Wardrum
...This already disproves the game being pay to win.

Pay-to-collect-more-quickly? Sure! But being able to advance doesn't require you to pay. It might take more time to do so for free, but that doesn't mean you cannot do it.


No; I’ve already paid for the experience necessary to know which decks/cards to craft. I also have experience playing with most meta decks. A new player could never acquire that without paying.
And new players can craft cheaper meta decks within a pretty darn reasonable timeframe of beginning the game. Several of us did and that was BEFORE all of the bonus resources from 50 to 25.

Experience simply comes with playing, not money.
Whenever someone says they hate deck X, the advice people give is to try the deck yourself. Because experience playing with a deck is different than playing against the deck. You can’t acquire experience playing with all the meta without paying or multiple years of collecting.
02/23/2019 04:18 PMPosted by VictoriousDN
Whenever someone says they hate deck X, the advice people give is to try the deck yourself. Because experience playing with a deck is different than playing against the deck. You can’t acquire experience playing with all the meta without paying or multiple years of collecting.


The topic is pay-to-win, not play-every-deck-in-the-game.
02/23/2019 04:26 PMPosted by freckles
02/23/2019 04:18 PMPosted by VictoriousDN
Whenever someone says they hate deck X, the advice people give is to try the deck yourself. Because experience playing with a deck is different than playing against the deck. You can’t acquire experience playing with all the meta without paying or multiple years of collecting.


The topic is pay-to-win, not play-every-deck-in-the-game.


It’s obvious that having access to more cards gives you an advantage in both decks you can play and experience.
02/23/2019 04:27 PMPosted by VictoriousDN
02/23/2019 04:26 PMPosted by freckles
...

The topic is pay-to-win, not play-every-deck-in-the-game.


It’s obvious that having access to more cards gives you an advantage in both decks you can play and experience.


But is it required to see results, i.e. 'win'? No, it is not.
I can win with basic cards; just a lot less often than I would with good cards. By your definition, I can’t think of a single game that could be called pay to win.
02/23/2019 04:31 PMPosted by VictoriousDN
I can win with basic cards; just a lot less often than I would with good cards. By your definition, I can’t think of a single game that could be called pay to win.
And by your definition, f2p players wouldn't be able to hit upper ranks and legend with only having access to a smaller handful of decks.

Yet, they do.
02/23/2019 04:33 PMPosted by Wardrum
02/23/2019 04:31 PMPosted by VictoriousDN
I can win with basic cards; just a lot less often than I would with good cards. By your definition, I can’t think of a single game that could be called pay to win.
And by your definition, f2p players wouldn't be able to hit upper ranks and legend with only having access to a smaller handful of decks.

Yet, they do.


Not really; after years of playing, this game is f2p viable assuming you stick to standard.

If you’ve already been legend, and you craft specific decks you can hit legend quickly (of course they already have previous experience with paid for cards).
02/23/2019 04:48 PMPosted by VictoriousDN
<span class="truncated">...</span>And by your definition, f2p players wouldn't be able to hit upper ranks and legend with only having access to a smaller handful of decks.

Yet, they do.


Not really; after years of playing, this game is f2p viable assuming you stick to standard.

If you’ve already been legend, and you craft specific decks you can hit legend quickly (of course they already have previous experience with paid for cards).
And they could've gotten those decks before, with a bit more time for free.

The difference here keeps boiling down to experience, even in your points. The fact that said experience may take longer to acquire when done for free is irrelevant, as it still doesn't render the game pay-to-win.
02/23/2019 04:48 PMPosted by VictoriousDN
...

Not really; after years of playing, this game is f2p viable assuming you stick to standard.

If you’ve already been legend, and you craft specific decks you can hit legend quickly (of course they already have previous experience with paid for cards).
And they could've gotten those decks before, with a but mkre time for free.

The difference here keeps boiling down to experience, even in your points. The fact that said experience may take longer to acquire when done for free is irrelevant, as it still doesn't render the game pay-to-win.


If you pay, you acquire cards and experience quicker. Given that there is finite time in life, you’re at an advantage if you pay. Since you gain an advantage by paying vs someone who doesn’t; I think it’s fairly obvious that paying helps you win.
To me it is very hard to understand the F2P campaigning supporters.
I think its rather simple really... If a game does not offer any sort of an advantage to the paying customers over the non-paying customers then the game is literally Free to Play. Can we place HS in this category? IMHO this is clearly a NO... As the advantage of having access to all the cards on the first day of an expansion offers a non-negligible advantage over the rest of the players.
It's pay to collect them all that's for sure. Either that or spend a huge chunk of time in arena. Which has an irony to it. If you spend a ton of time in arena to collect cards and only/mainly play arena why collect the cards? You can definitively f2p this game if your goal is like 1-3 solid meta decks, collect them all f2p nah that's a job.
02/23/2019 07:49 PMPosted by DrKorn
To me it is very hard to understand the F2P campaigning supporters.
I think its rather simple really... If a game does not offer any sort of an advantage to the paying customers over the non-paying customers then the game is literally Free to Play. Can we place HS in this category? IMHO this is clearly a NO... As the advantage of having access to all the cards on the first day of an expansion offers a non-negligible advantage over the rest of the players.


A f2p infinite arena player can save up resources to have all the cards on the first day of an expansion, just as a paying customer who dishes $150-200.

Your "clear No", as per your own arbitrary definition, has been invalidated.

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