Any word from devs on genn/baku?

Play Mode Discussion
These two are horrible design mistakes, i think everyone can agree.
They're incredibly polarizing, easy to play and easy to pilot, are able to gain insane tempo with either a supercheap hero power or an overpowered hero power at next to no cost.. Even when they rotate out, they will remain a problem in wild forever :(

Many suggestions have been made on how to nerf these opressive badly designed cards, why are the devs now so reluctant to speak out on these issue-cards?
Peter Whalen did talk about Genn & Baku being an issue on the 300th episode of the Angry Chicken podcast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYLzeZUaO2g
I love them, some of the best card created!
we have thought a lot about baku + genn and have decided to nerf fireball

-love, devs
hahahah word from Devs, that's awesome...

Nice one
They are aware they are a problem.

They have no idea what to do.

Can't think of a better way to sum up the entire Hearthstone experience.
02/15/2019 10:57 AMPosted by Tyani
These two are horrible design mistakes, i think everyone can agree.
They're incredibly polarizing, easy to play and easy to pilot, are able to gain insane tempo with either a supercheap hero power or an overpowered hero power at next to no cost.. Even when they rotate out, they will remain a problem in wild forever :(

Many suggestions have been made on how to nerf these opressive badly designed cards, why are the devs now so reluctant to speak out on these issue-cards?


Because they brought in money by allowing more players with an even lower skill level than Jades required to win matches? And I never thought I would say anything required a lower skill level than that. All you needed to be able to do was count without having to take your shoes off and Odd Paladin is much the same is some respects.
The real problem with genn and baku is that devs not had enough knowledge of those effects to really design they.

Like....

1.How many start of game effects you know?

A meme card.

2.How much basic hero powers they designed for PvP?

Just the basic structure of the game so 9.

Then they had the idea of mix it with deckbuild restrictions to difficult a little more.....

Sorry but there is no way that it would not end to powerfull or to weak.
And know what?

We should be gratefull it was the former because the raven year with even less impact on standard would be even more boring.

To me the solution is just do early rotation because i'm while i'm think that they will haunt wild forever i'm also not think that they will be a opressive force forever.

Unlike highlander decks that the pool of cards only get higher) odd and even restrictions also get bigger.

That to not speak about future hero power design that you can be sure that will exist even if in the form of start of game effects.

Wild can in fact handle baku and genn. They will probably dominate wild until 2020 if no nerf happens but you can't expect wild to change as fast as standard.
02/15/2019 12:13 PMPosted by gEM
we have thought a lot about baku + genn and have decided to nerf fireball

-love, devs


wasnt fireball buffed a long time ago ?
02/15/2019 12:56 PMPosted by AlvasViseron
They are aware they are a problem.

They have no idea what to do.

Can't think of a better way to sum up the entire Hearthstone experience.

you missed "we are keeping a close eye on" and the inevitable nerf once it finally rotates into wild.
They've created lots of interesting decks honestly. I think they are great cards. Not to mention they aren't in a very oppressive spot right now. The only reason odd paladin is at such a high win rate is because it eats hunters for breakfast.... you know, the class that has hovered around 25% playrate with 4 viable and unique decks, none of which are even or odd decks :D
I really don't understand all the hate, they give you so much information. You can guess your opponents next play with much greater accuracy when they're playing a Genn/Baku.

The only QOL change I'd like is for the effects to trigger before the mulligan. It's kind of unfair, but so is the buffed up hero power.
02/15/2019 01:42 PMPosted by xlux
They've created lots of interesting decks honestly. I think they are great cards. Not to mention they aren't in a very oppressive spot right now. The only reason odd paladin is at such a high win rate is because it eats hunters for breakfast.... you know, the class that has hovered around 25% playrate with 4 viable and unique decks, none of which are even or odd decks :D


You have a VERY short memory of the game. Hunter has been a steaming pile of crap for a while in HS and only recently came up in power because the team gave them absolutely direct synergy support.

Odd Paladin is not the only oppressive Genn/Baku deck out there. there are at least 7 distinct Genn and Baku decks that never really change and are all top tier depending on the way the meta shifts.

More importantly their impact on the game is most damaging from a design perspective. From the point they became real available cards they directly influence EVERY card ever created for as long as HS exists and they are playable cards. Cost of card is very important in HS as we have seen a nerf of 1 mana is enough to make cards unplayable. By influencing a cards cost purely based on if it would go in a Genn/Baku deck you are artificially inflating or decreasing a cards power. There's already enough factors that go into a cards cost adding two more variables makes it harder to properly cost cards.
02/15/2019 10:57 AMPosted by Tyani
These two are horrible design mistakes, i think everyone can agree.
no
Wow, did you have too much coffee?

1. I dont recall putting a scope on the amount of time I was referring to hunters. Anyone that checks the stats fairly regularly like myself knows what I'm referring too.

2. Um, where the hell are the other ones if odd paladin isnt the only one? They nerfed ONE utility card from odd rogue and it literally vanished off the face of the meta, but must be Baku's fault right?

and 3.
02/15/2019 02:01 PMPosted by Dallaen

More importantly their impact on the game is most damaging from a design perspective. From the point they became real available cards they directly influence EVERY card ever created for as long as HS exists and they are playable cards. Cost of card is very important in HS as we have seen a nerf of 1 mana is enough to make cards unplayable. By influencing a cards cost purely based on if it would go in a Genn/Baku deck you are artificially inflating or decreasing a cards power. There's already enough factors that go into a cards cost adding two more variables makes it harder to properly cost cards.


The design is not "damaging" it just a reality you are having trouble coming to terms with, and from "this point on" you will only have to put up with them for little over a year, so maybe try to enjoy them while you have the chance. If you want to talk about "balancing" (LOL) wild, thats a conversation I have no interest in having.

Even though blizzards recent "nerf" style has just been to increase or decrease mana cost, that doesnt mean thats their ONLY MEANS of balancing around Baku and Genn when they are designing cards
I agree that these two cards are an example of poor game design and lack of testing from the development team. It was clearly about money or I'll have to assume they have no idea what they are doing.

These two cards (but specially BAKU) are the reason I stopped playing ladder 4 months ago. I've dropped all the way to 20 and can't see my self going back to ladder until they have left the game for good. I used to rank to 3 on avg but the copy paste sheep mentality this game encourages have killed the experience for me along with hunterstone.
As long as they don't "balance" the upgraded hero-power...

It SHOULD be equal to Justicar's hero-power.

The problem is obviously the drawback isn't enough of Baku/Genn. Make it only upgraded if you have Baku/Genn in your opening hand, unlike Justicar you don't need to play it, but you need to have it in your hand to activate it.
02/15/2019 01:58 PMPosted by Imagineer
I really don't understand all the hate, they give you so much information. You can guess your opponents next play with much greater accuracy when they're playing a Genn/Baku.

The only QOL change I'd like is for the effects to trigger before the mulligan. It's kind of unfair, but so is the buffed up hero power.


How can you Not understand the hate for overpowered cards? That’s a bit mindboggling.

Let me put it to you like this: you play a midrange-ish deck. You don’t start with a onedrop. Enemy paladin has 2 1/1’s on turn 1. You drop a 2 drop, enemy has 4 1/1’s. You manage to clear the enemy board but used a card. Enemy summons more 1/1’s. You don’t have a way to deal with them for the fourth time, and are now on turn 4-5. You lose as they buff up their recruits. Baku and genn deck provide far too much tempo and power.

That the devs don’t know how to nerf them shows how little thought they put into these opressive cards. There is 0% interaction as the effects go of before the match even starts. That also means that no card in Any future expansion will be able to counter these kinds of decks. In short, it’s bad desgin and the devs should deal with this ASAP. If they don’t, every meta from now on will be doninated by these unfun constructions.
02/15/2019 02:34 PMPosted by Warsong
As long as they don't "balance" the the upgraded hero-power...

It SHOULD be equal to Justicar's hero-power.

The problem is obviously the drawback isn't enough of Baku/Genn. Make it only upgraded if you have Baku/Genn in your opening hand, unlike Justicar you don't need to play it, but you need to have it in your hand to activate it.


1. Make they in opening hand screw even more agressive decks while control monsters like odd warrior not even feel it.

2. To make they different you just need to change baku text to:

".....give your hero power a scary upgrade."

So this makes baku text says that it isnt the same upgrade as justicar.
02/15/2019 02:55 PMPosted by Tyani


Let me put it to you like this: you play a midrange-ish deck. You don’t start with a onedrop. Enemy paladin has 2 1/1’s on turn 1. You drop a 2 drop, enemy has 4 1/1’s. You manage to clear the enemy board but used a card. Enemy summons more 1/1’s. You don’t have a way to deal with them for the fourth time, and are now on turn 4-5. You lose as they buff up their recruits. Baku and genn deck provide far too much tempo and power.


LOL, so you had one of the VERY FEW deal 1 damage to all cards under 4 mana and you use it on turn 3 against 4 silverhand recruits? Maybe adjust your play before begging for nerfs? You are demonstrating that you dont understand some very basic concepts of card games.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum