Mechathun = playing a single player game

Play Mode Discussion
02/12/2019 07:50 AMPosted by globalist
PSA: Mechathun locks in Wild now run Reno in a deck full of 2-of's, just because they can and it apparently works.


Not “full of” - but Reno activates if you draw a copy of your doubles. It’s current deck, not your original decklist.

I’ve replaced the Galvanizers with Thaurissan.
02/12/2019 04:41 AMPosted by Mand
They’re literally playing every card in their deck and you aren’t interacting with them?

What have you been doing with all that time?


I hate you mand. Why are you even an MVP? In every thread i see you antagonise, troll and insult people. Besides, your arguement makes no sense. Undertaker hunter was playing cards from their deck, patron warrior was playing cards from their deck...Jade druid was playing cards from their deck....your arguement is nonsensical and frankly insulting to everyone, trolling even! Come on man.

Anyways, the problem is that Combo/otk NEEDS to be niche or it will be opressive, since there is no counterplay to it. If it’s not as good As the top tier decks and not even in the top 2 tiers, that’s good, because it will be defeated by some strategies. Remember freezemage? It was beatable by lots of armor, but that armor lost to midrange that’s how it’s supposed to work, currently mechathun in it’s various decks is not countered by Anything. It IS a problem, wether you like it or not.
Make their souls suffer, play Warlock.

But yeah I get it, they put a clock on games that some people don't enjoy and wrecks certain control strategies.

But also, you guys are mixing bags. Yeah, it is tough to rushdown mC Druid, but it easy to rush down Warlock, and giving mC druid minions really f's up his game, but does nothing to Warlock. There are viable strategies to counter these decks. That's why they don't win at higher ranks.

But you have to actually put them in your deck.

02/12/2019 03:27 AMPosted by Lascellius
I will add my voice to the chorus of Mecha’thun dislike. As a control player (predominantly), and someone who often just plays for fun (see: Tess Academic Espionage Rogue), facing Mecha’thun is the height of impotent futility - what a waste of my time, watching my opponent cycle through their deck until the inevitable activation.

But what cemented it for me was facing a Druid whom I continued sapping and Vanishing (Tess shenanigans) in a deliberate attempt to ensure minions in hand... only to have him play and target his own minions to kill them off. I mean, clever on his part, but literally nothing that I could do to prevent it. The epitome of solitaire - zero interaction when he is consistently killing off his own minions! snore.


Actually, someone else on the the forum mentioned that you can run lorewalker Cho in an academic espionage deck to really screw over druid mechacthun players. You give him a copy of the AE, and there is nothing they can do to get rid of it except play it.
Drakkari trickster, griftah, mojomaster. There are plenty of options to disrupt the ritual. But nonetheless, it's horrible to watch and play again and again.. even the awful rexxerhunter is a glimps more fun (still cant wait for april though)
02/12/2019 02:04 AMPosted by Void
OTK/Combo is an archetype that needs to die in a slow and horrible way.Any meta where taking away interactivity and killing an opponent with little to no counterplay is horrible for any card game.


Only if together with odd warrior.
02/12/2019 08:59 AMPosted by minami
02/12/2019 02:04 AMPosted by Void
OTK/Combo is an archetype that needs to die in a slow and horrible way.Any meta where taking away interactivity and killing an opponent with little to no counterplay is horrible for any card game.


Only if together with odd warrior.


All control packages have to be looked at. Not just odd warrior.

By looked at I do not mean make it unplayable thus promoting aggro meta
02/12/2019 05:40 AMPosted by Madmax
02/12/2019 04:48 AMPosted by haargroth
...

since when?


Since always? Just because it has Mind Blast/Voidform as a (possible) finisher it doesn’t make it a combo deck. Standard Control Priest isn’t built around that combo, it just has that as one possible tool to finish the game.


Seriously? And what other win condition does control priest have? Go face with Alex and Primordial Drake?

Pretty much every card in that deck is meant for control and not for win. Remove Mind Blast and Shadow Visions and come tell me how this deck is still ok because it has another win condition.

Sometime I wonder if you guys even play these decks.
02/12/2019 01:20 AMPosted by Siperos
Now, before I start debunking some of the ridiculous claims here I say this; I don't like Mecha'thun decks myself. They're boring, uninteresting, well maybe fun to try out for the first couple matches before I get bored, and they're polarizing because only aggro decks, or decks with counters like Mojomaster Zihi or Warlock with Demonic Project can beat them efficiently.

But let's not let our emotions and f-fe-fee-FEELINGS get in the way of facts and objectivity.

02/11/2019 10:35 PMPosted by Tyani
People can stay in denial, or they can realise that otk/combo decks being what they are: Overpowered.
Oh really? If they really are that "Overpowered" how come there is, according to HSReplay, not even one SINGLE Mecha'thun decks in tiers 1-2 (decks with +50% win rates)? How can a deck be overpowered AND still not be one of the best decks with the highest win rates in the game? How is that possible???

Source: https://hsreplay.net/meta/

Could it be that YOU are the one living in denial? Maybe? Possibly...? Just a thought.

02/11/2019 10:35 PMPosted by Tyani
In the truest sense of the word.
Pfft! That's rich coming from you after your last statement. You don't even know what that word means!

02/11/2019 10:35 PMPosted by Tyani
They lack counters/counterplay, are very easy to pull off, and can win with an empty board
Again; if they're that good then why none of their decks reach even 50% win rate according to HSReplay? If they really are that "overpowered" it would show in the UNBIASED data.

02/11/2019 10:35 PMPosted by Tyani
Worse yet, there is no counterplay at all. I’ve heard people say play aggro, against that metric tonne of armor and healing? GL buddy. Zihi? Merely delaying the inevitable. It doesn’t work.
But of course they won't work if you or your deck suck. Not much anyone can do about that, except yourself.

02/11/2019 10:35 PMPosted by Tyani
and can win with an empty board, something the devs said they DID NOT LIKE with Leeroy.
That is a fair point but we got to remember that there are two big differences between Leeroy and Mecha'thun.
1. Leeroy doesn't kill you from full health and through bazillion armor.
And 2. You can see Mecha'thun coming VERY early on and act accordingly. It's painfully obvious when your opponent is playing a Mecha'thun deck. Leeroy on the other hand usually comes out of nowhere and can finish you off if you got less than half of your health left and you got something to buff his attack.

Look, you guys can dislike Mecha'thun, and OTK decks in general, as much as you want, I mean I dislike those decks. But don't pretend they're the most oppressive or "overpowered" decks with no counters or anything. Because that's simply not true. Decks like Mecha'thun Warlock/Druid and OTK Paladin/Mage (the latter which I think is also known as Quest Mage), statistically, lose way more matches than win according to HSReplay. Ignoring unbiased DATA and FACTS is living in denial.


Huge fan of presenting data to support an idea. But I still downvoted your post just because you were such a d--k about it.

OP didn't call your mama a crackho. He and just posted his passionate opinion.

I know the old cliche is true: Opinions are like b-holes. Everybody does have one and most of them are full of doo-doo.

But there was nothing particularly controversial or insulting about OP's opinion. So no need to go all aggro and condescending on him.
02/12/2019 08:07 AMPosted by Tyani
Besides, your arguement makes no sense. Undertaker hunter was playing cards from their deck, patron warrior was playing cards from their deck

but not all of them .....thats the difference thats what he meant by "every card "

i think you missed that word in his post going by the decks you are comparing mechathun to
02/12/2019 09:29 AMPosted by haargroth
02/12/2019 05:40 AMPosted by Madmax
...

Since always? Just because it has Mind Blast/Voidform as a (possible) finisher it doesn’t make it a combo deck. Standard Control Priest isn’t built around that combo, it just has that as one possible tool to finish the game.


Seriously? And what other win condition does control priest have? Go face with Alex and Primordial Drake?

Pretty much every card in that deck is meant for control and not for win. Remove Mind Blast and Shadow Visions and come tell me how this deck is still ok because it has another win condition.

Sometime I wonder if you guys even play these decks.


I’ve won plenty of games without the MB combo, just by whittling down enemies with board presence. And it’s literally the only deck I play in ranked (gotta get that Golden Anduin). Does the MB combo help close out games? Sure! But often Voidform + board is enough if you play your cards right (ha ha!).

That being said, I personally use the more offense oriented version of Control Priest (Crowd Roasters instead of Drakes, double Holy Fire instead of HF/Mass Hysteria). Seems to work OK at dumpster rank.
02/11/2019 10:26 PMPosted by Pumaster
I'm sorry, but I fail to see the reason to keep playing if this continues to be a thing. It doesn't matter what the other player does, Mechathun net decks go off regardless of what you do.

Every one of these games is so boring is the worst part.

There is virtually no interaction, no action, just armoring up to insane proportions, drawing and using any number of methods of finishing off the deck. And nothing whatsoever the opponent does changes the outcome.

Why? Seriously why is this a REGULAR THING??
At LEAST have this trash in Wild where there are more counters to this self-playing nonsense.

I thought this is supposed to be a game vs players, not against bots. Every one of these matches is just watching the opponent pull this very-stupid net deck, and they do nothing to interact with me. It's just armor, armor, draw, minion damage, mana manipulation and then one of several variations of triggering it's win condition. It is so stupidly boring to watch these copycats repeat a one-trick pony that literally anyone can run if they have the right cards.

How is this helping keep this game alive? Interesting? Fun?


Some folks awhile back said it best on these forums, Hearthstone has become a game of "Solitaire". You care little to nothing of what your opponent is doing. Just play your decks theme or game plan - if you achieve it - you win.
02/12/2019 01:20 AMPosted by Siperos
Now, before I start debunking some of the ridiculous claims here I say this; I don't like Mecha'thun decks myself. They're boring, uninteresting, well maybe fun to try out for the first couple matches before I get bored, and they're polarizing because only aggro decks, or decks with counters like Mojomaster Zihi or Warlock with Demonic Project can beat them efficiently.

But let's not let our emotions and f-fe-fee-FEELINGS get in the way of facts and objectivity.


I FEEL LIKE THERE WAS NOTHING I COULD DO (fact)

your turn
02/11/2019 10:35 PMPosted by Tyani
The devs HAVE to step in here.

Honestly... should they?
We've had two rounds of nerfs and the complaints are the same but the actors are slightly different. The game, right now, has a fundamental flaw that most decks can just ignore the early game as Control tools have gone above and beyond what aggro has to offer as threats.

At this point in time I think the best course of action so we don't needlessly kill things that are not a negative in Wild is to just hold-off until rotation. very few individuals are happy with the current meta and ; hopefully, through whatever HoF decisions are made and rotation the meta can become a tad more fun for most.

02/12/2019 09:29 AMPosted by haargroth
02/12/2019 05:40 AMPosted by Madmax
...

Since always? Just because it has Mind Blast/Voidform as a (possible) finisher it doesn’t make it a combo deck. Standard Control Priest isn’t built around that combo, it just has that as one possible tool to finish the game.


Seriously? And what other win condition does control priest have? Go face with Alex and Primordial Drake?

Pretty much every card in that deck is meant for control and not for win. Remove Mind Blast and Shadow Visions and come tell me how this deck is still ok because it has another win condition.

Sometime I wonder if you guys even play these decks.

Do you even play the deck?

Against many opponents the Mind Blasts just finish the game earlier.... you had already loss. Control Priest is a Control deck with a burst finisher that most of the times just ends the game earlier than the minion replacements for it would be (so ignore DS/IF) in Ysera and, probably, -1 Alex and +2 Cobalt Scalebanes. Against other non-combo and non-DK Rexxar decks you win by picking apart their deck and gaining a dominant board position.

I'd say last month from r9 to r5 only two of my wins while breezing through at 72% WR were secured through Mind Blast and one of those was against Gallery Priest where the Control Priest is on a clock to a degree.

02/12/2019 10:27 AMPosted by Slimjim
Some folks awhile back said it best on these forums, Hearthstone has become a game of "Solitaire". You care little to nothing of what your opponent is doing. Just play your decks theme or game plan - if you achieve it - you win.

Honestly compared to the two other card games I played heavily (Magic and Hex) this has been true from the start. The only way in HS I have to really influence your actions on your turn is through taunts. HS will ALWAYS be subjected to a bigger 'plan execution' focus than other CCGs because the opponent can't interrupt your turn.
Do you even play the deck?

Against many opponents the Mind Blasts just finish the game earlier


Maybe you were lucky. My most games were against Priest (board presence hard to keep with removals) or Hunter (where I had to fight for a board thus MB was needed because my board was busy to keep his board in a check). Sure, sometimes I do not even need to play MB at all.

But sometimes I could close the game as control warrior on turn 7 with just face damage)

Looks like you had some lucky pocket meta. I hope I would get some too. Atm stucked at r4-r5
02/12/2019 08:07 AMPosted by Tyani
Anyways, the problem is that Combo/otk NEEDS to be niche or it will be opressive, since there is no counterplay to it


There actually are counter plays to combo/OTKs, they just take tech cards that you might not "normally" run in your deck.

Hakkar's win condition basically counters mechatun's, while it turns holy warth pally's OTK to more like a Russian roulette

Skulking geist counters mecha'thun druid and priests that relies on inner fire and/or smite, while it also gets rid of things like dark pact

Nerubian Unraveler at the right time prevents mecha'thun locks doing their bloodbloom or pallies doing double holy wrath, and messes with many other OTKs that rely on spells.

Transform effects messes with res priest (mages/shamans have it easier, while tinkermaster is a niche neutral)

The solutions are there. If OTKs are really such a problem, you might as well tech some of the above in.
02/12/2019 10:57 AMPosted by haargroth
Do you even play the deck?

Against many opponents the Mind Blasts just finish the game earlier


Maybe you were lucky. My most games were against Priest (board presence hard to keep with removals) or Hunter (where I had to fight for a board thus MB was needed because my board was busy to keep his board in a check). Sure, sometimes I do not even need to play MB at all.

But sometimes I could close the game as control warrior on turn 7 with just face damage)

Looks like you had some lucky pocket meta. I hope I would get some too. Atm stucked at r4-r5

This was pre-patch (I haven't touch Standard outside of messing around, been playing Wild this month). I did jump on HSR to look at popularity and, right now, it does look like you're leaning a lot on Mind Blast:

Rough numbers in case you don't have access to the data:
22% Priest (11% Wall, 6% Gallery, 5% Control)
10% MR Hunter (others don't amount to much to care about)

So 32% of the meta is where you lean on Mind Blast right now, 3% is the highly unfavored Warrior matchup so...

65% of the meta is a mish-mash of this and that. I'd probably guess 10% or so you still rely on Mind Blast some so 55% currently are games where the Control portion of the deck should in out.

I will fully admit that is worse than it was last month if memory serves.
Seems this forum is full of cry babies. Complaining about a strategy that requires someone to correctly play all of their deck cards.
02/12/2019 11:47 AMPosted by TheDarkArmy
a strategy that requires someone to correctly play all of their deck cards.


Combo/otk decks actually requires less "correctly play all of their deck cards", since their finishing combo is already decided.

While another deck has to play all 30 of their cards correctly, a combo/otk deck only need to play correctly 30-n cards, with n being their finishing combo

Now some might say "well they have to play those 30-n cards MORE correctly". That's not really true either. Most combo/otk are running removals, card draw, and heals/armor/stalls. Most of these effects are instant and only last one turn.

So you basically make one decision about them: "do I play this now or later", but that's a decision that applies to basically every card in the game. But for otk/combo, they have to consider one less thing when asking that question: whether they can afford running out of steam. By its nature, otk decks don't have to worry about running out of steam. Mecha'thun even relies on you running out of cards and minions

Another consideration otk/combo decks don't have to worry so much about is "will this survive to give me value". A lot of minions in the game need to survive multiple turns to get value, and each turn a minion is alive you have to make decisions on how it would attack, or whethr you might want to buff it.

With most removals, heals, and card draw, their effect is instant or near-instant (what happens to the gnomish engineer afterwards is mostly irrelevant as the value - the card draw - is already done)
02/12/2019 04:41 AMPosted by Mand
They’re literally playing every card in their deck and you aren’t interacting with them?

What have you been doing with all that time?


Well since you asked smart guy. I have been playing my cards to the board and they continually draw and remove my board because Warlock currently has that much removal and access to life gain and card draw to make it as uninteractive as possible.

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