how to fix the game with 3 solutions

Play Mode Discussion
1. Nerf lifesteal. When lifesteal damage hits a minion, it should not restore HP, only when it hits hero.

2. Cap Armor at 10.

3. Make Taunt and Divine Shield trigger only when played from your hand.

All of your recent and upcoming nerfs are and will be related to that.

These are the mechanics which make the game unfun. It creates a cost for choosing to stall the game in order to do your OTK situation.
These nerfs seem arbitrary, come without individual justifications, and directly conflict with a number of preexisting cards and effects. There are many other, cleaner solutions that people have proposed. The ones provided here (which suspiciously look like the gripes of an aggro player) are confusing, clunky, and would require much more of an overhaul than should be necessary.

1) How will Spirit Lash work? Amethyst Spellstone? They literally never hit heroes and by your nerfs would either need to be turned into much worse cards or would need to be very confusing exceptions to the rule.

2) So Druids can't pick "Armor" twice when casting Branching Paths? Drywhisker Armorer caps out on a less-than-full board? Tower Shield +10 literally doesn't work or needs to be turned into a much worse version of itself? Thekal gets nuked into the ground?

3) Again, weird with several cards. Do the Voidwalkers that come from Voidlord still have Taunt? Do the 1/5s off of Spreading Plague still have Taunt? Do the 1/2s from Green Jelly still have Taunt? how about Sand Drudge? Security Rover? There are soooo many more. Again, you'd either have to nerf/fix a ton of cards or make an extraordinary number of confusing exceptions.
No ... but no ... (/o\)
1) Make those cards cost 1 less or make them explicitly say how much life you gain. They should fixed so only gain life per damage taken instead of dealt. If Amethyst Spellstone hits a 1/1 minion, only should gain 1 hp, which almost always exploited that way. Spirit Lash should only gain 1 life per hit, not gain 30 hp cause of spell damage combo.

2) You can, you just get 10 armor, instead of 12. If you have more than 10 armor, you are most likely just stalling the game at no cost you so you can do your OTK situation. It's not fun and what's wrong with hearthstone.

3) Unless the card / spell says the minion has taunt, then it get taunt. Voidlord doesn't get played from the player's hand and is out by turn 6, again, stalling the game at no cost.

All the cards you listed are the top 10 people are playing to stall the game (making it unfun) at no cost so can do their OTK situation.
02/24/2019 05:58 AMPosted by cheatch
All the cards you listed are the top 10 people are playing to stall the game (making it unfun) at no cost so can do their OTK situation.


What OTK deck uses Tower Shield and Drywhisker Armorer? Asking for a friend.
02/24/2019 05:58 AMPosted by cheatch
1) Make those cards cost 1 less or make them explicitly say how much life you gain. They should fixed so only gain life per damage taken instead of dealt. If Amethyst Spellstone hits a 1/1 minion, only should gain 1 hp, which almost always exploited that way. Spirit Lash should only gain 1 life per hit, not gain 30 hp cause of spell damage combo.

2) You can, you just get 10 armor, instead of 12. If you have more than 10 armor, you are most likely just stalling the game at no cost you so you can do your OTK situation. It's not fun and what's wrong with hearthstone.

3) Unless the card / spell says the minion has taunt, then it get taunt. Voidlord doesn't get played from the player's hand and is out by turn 6, again, stalling the game at no cost.

All the cards you listed are the top 10 people are playing to stall the game (making it unfun) at no cost so can do their OTK situation.
While I do hold the opinion that OTK decks have too extensive of a control toolset at their hands, a LOT of that is about to go away with this next rotation. Your suggestions wind up being more restrictive toward future design than liberating unless you're playing an Aggro deck, in which case you'd cackle gleefully at any of these changes.
02/24/2019 05:58 AMPosted by cheatch
1) Make those cards cost 1 less or make them explicitly say how much life you gain. They should fixed so only gain life per damage taken instead of dealt. If Amethyst Spellstone hits a 1/1 minion, only should gain 1 hp, which almost always exploited that way. Spirit Lash should only gain 1 life per hit, not gain 30 hp cause of spell damage combo.

2) You can, you just get 10 armor, instead of 12. If you have more than 10 armor, you are most likely just stalling the game at no cost you so you can do your OTK situation. It's not fun and what's wrong with hearthstone.

3) Unless the card / spell says the minion has taunt, then it get taunt. Voidlord doesn't get played from the player's hand and is out by turn 6, again, stalling the game at no cost.

All the cards you listed are the top 10 people are playing to stall the game (making it unfun) at no cost so can do their OTK situation.


Thekal would almost immediately kill you. The other points do not seem to be more than products of bias, either.
Your ideas of balance are subjective, and not based on universally applicable solutions.
Try again, with data and reason.
This game will only be better if you remove the OTК deck from it and the victory on the 5-6 move.
02/24/2019 06:40 AMPosted by FaboanGrosb
This game will only be better if you remove the OTК deck from it and the victory on the 5-6 move.


So... fatigue control matchups, forever?
There are a lot of decks, the game of which is interesting, but they also do not reach fatigue. And even if fatigue, then what? There are 30 cards in a deck, why not sell them all?
Hmm... How about...

No?
With the armor deal, make it so you can no longer "Gain Armor" after you already have 10. So before an action, if you have <10 armor, you gain armor per the action. But if you do the action and you have 10+ armor, all armor gain is nil. Basically 1 IF statement Blizzard would have to do. Thekal doesn't gain armor, it converts it, so not effected.
At the moment, the problem is not in the armor, but in the OTК decks, which must be mercilessly fixed. And perhaps in the hunters.
02/24/2019 06:55 AMPosted by FaboanGrosb
At the moment, the problem is not in the armor, but in the OTК decks, which must be mercilessly fixed. And perhaps in the hunters.


I agree, most OTK's are exploiting lifesteal, armor, and taunt/divine shield mechanics to stall the game until they do their OTK. These mechanics have been exploited for a very long time.

A lot of nerfs are based on these exploits. For example, there was nothing wrong with Kingsbane Rogue. The problem was the deck exploiting lifesteal.
02/24/2019 05:18 AMPosted by cheatch
1. Nerf lifesteal. When lifesteal damage hits a minion, it should not restore HP, only when it hits hero.

2. Cap Armor at 10.

3. Make Taunt and Divine Shield trigger only when played from your hand.


Lets add 4th "fix" to this list.

4. Charge minions and Spells cannot hit enemy face, unless a minion that is on the board, deals damage to enemy hero first.

Stalling is not the only problem with Hearthstone. Aggro is just as much of a problem as Control/Combo/OTK. So while your "solutions" address the latter, but also lets not forget about the former.

If you think my suggestion is dumb, that is because it is on the same level of realism as yours are.
I like that, so like hero is in "immune status" every turn until takes minion damage.

Instead of "immune status", would probably would need a better word lol
02/24/2019 06:51 AMPosted by cheatch
With the armor deal, make it so you can no longer "Gain Armor" after you already have 10. So before an action, if you have <10 armor, you gain armor per the action. But if you do the action and you have 10+ armor, all armor gain is nil. Basically 1 IF statement Blizzard would have to do. Thekal doesn't gain armor, it converts it, so not effected.


Yes. Making the game more complex (in the worst way), and expecting changes in base game mechancics.
While gutting more balanced cards than blizz could ever try to.
How could anyone disagree with your "solutions"?
OP made me giggle.

Making a massive change to HS mechanics that would require rewrites of dozens of cards in standard (and many more in wild!) because he doesn’t like losing to controlling decks. The real punchline is that 3/5 of the tier 1 decks on HSreplay are aggro decks and one is midrange (as of writing).
As long as there are fewer board clears and aoe in the next rotation, we should see a more balanced meta in standard without this. Right now priest had clears available every other turn, and can tailor their deck with shadow visions (extra combo or extra clear).

The only change to fundamentals mechanics I can see the game really needing for the long term health of Wild is to only allow minions to be resurrected once. Or at the very least one at a time, like you would have with a physical graveyard in a physical card game.

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