How do you deal with terrible players?

General Discussion
06/17/2016 08:41 PMPosted by Shmorrior
In the second version, Tyrande isn't going to feel like you're personally and publicly calling her out and you've also given some direction in a positive manner that should help prevent future mistakes. I think this is going to result in much higher team morale than if there's someone berating others' play in chat, even if they do it without cussing them out.


Yeah, that's way way way too sensitive. And, again, anyone who can't take polite and constructive criticism has no business playing multiplayer games. I'm not going to flatter someone to try to convince them to stop doing something wrong. Politely pointing out what's wrong should be fine, and if they can't adapt, and rage about the kind of comments I make, involving specific repeated problems, then they're not going to adapt to anything.
06/17/2016 08:46 PMPosted by SPDCPA
06/17/2016 08:41 PMPosted by Shmorrior
In the second version, Tyrande isn't going to feel like you're personally and publicly calling her out and you've also given some direction in a positive manner that should help prevent future mistakes. I think this is going to result in much higher team morale than if there's someone berating others' play in chat, even if they do it without cussing them out.


Yeah, that's way way way too sensitive. And, again, anyone who can't take polite and constructive criticism has no business playing multiplayer games. I'm not going to flatter someone to try to convince them to stop doing something wrong. Politely pointing out what's wrong should be fine, and if they can't adapt, and rage about the kind of comments I make, involving specific repeated problems, then they're not going to adapt to anything.

Earlier you said your method has, at best, a 33% success rate.

Perhaps, there's a better way...
06/17/2016 08:36 PMPosted by SPDCPA

I'm spending that time talking about mistakes which are made repeatedly. I'm not jumping down anybody's throat for getting picked once.

Yeah, but that's what you're not getting. It doesn't matter what you're spending time talking about. You're still spending time typing while the enemy is spending time playing. In an evenly matched game, you're now responsible for tipping the scale in the enemy's favor.

06/17/2016 08:36 PMPosted by SPDCPA
I often see systemic problems - The Sylvanas who spends too much time overextended at the enemy towers then gets ganked, or the valla or vaults into fights to close range for no reason at all and gets splattered.
And you're not going to radically change your team mate's playstyles within one game. In fact they're most likely either ignoring or arguing back against anything you tell them.

It doesn't matter whether your intentions are noble or you're just trying to get a rise out of them. You're still wasting your own time and playing with fire in the chance that one of your team mates is going to start firing back and start a flame war right in the middle of the match. If that happens, you can kiss any hope of a win goodbye.


Your argument that typing in this game causes failure is specious at best. I'm not typing paragraphs. I'm typing concise, but polite and informative criticism.

I've highlighted the keyword, here. It doesn't matter how polite you are about it. It's still criticism. During a match. And everyone you criticize will see it as such, not matter how nicely you lay it on them.

Stop being reactive and start being proactive. Stop worrying about what's already happened and start worrying about what's going to happen. Say things like "group pls", "Care Sylv", and use danger pings. Don't break down her talent build and tell her (no matter how politely) about the mistakes she's made so far.
Ok, you two are both way way way too sensitive also.

If someone is doing something wrong, politely tell them that's wrong. If they fail to understand the reasoning or throw a hissy fit that's their problem.

People are entitled to their opinions and play mistakes. That doesn't make them right. Maybe it's a generational thing, but constructive CRITICISM - yes CRITICISM - should be helpful.

Yes, I use pings liberally, but I'm not about to start praising that tower hugging always ganked Syl. If Syl can't deal with "You're overextending and getting ganked several times, please stop that" then Syl has bigger problems beyond being bad at this game.
06/17/2016 08:10 PMPosted by SPDCPA
06/17/2016 08:03 PMPosted by Shmorrior
You might think your tone sounds fine when you say stuff like that, but it's comes off as insulting/condescending/attacking and most people aren't going to listen.


Most people are way, way, way too sensitive then.

I'm not saying "L2P NUB AND QUIT YER FEEDING!!!!111!!!."

I'm pointing out why they're dying, as in overextending or bad positioning, and asking them to fix it, constructively.

If people can't handle that level of criticism they shouldn't be playing multiplayer games.


It doesn't work and as they ignore the team requesting them to play as a unit the team gets more irritated. Then as the team gets more hostile that player will normally rage quit and intentionally throw because they don't like being told they are not a team player.

Sadly the matchmaking is HotS is beyond frustrating because those bad players who aren't on the same page as the rest of the team appear to exist at every skill level. In the new system actual player skill at any MMR value seems to be quite varried and with lower populated ranks Blizzard is allowing for some pretty large MMR variances within games.

The end result is a game that has become highly frustrating to play. Players find they are having less fun, which ultimately leads to those players leaving the game entirely. This is happening from the pro scene all the way down to the lowest MMR ranks.
06/17/2016 09:28 PMPosted by SPDCPA
Ok, you two are both way way way too sensitive also.

If someone is doing something wrong, politely tell them that's wrong. If they fail to understand the reasoning or throw a hissy fit that's their problem.

People are entitled to their opinions and play mistakes. That doesn't make them right. Maybe it's a generational thing, but constructive CRITICISM - yes CRITICISM - should be helpful.

It's not a generational thing. Effective ways of providing constructive feedback have been known for a long time. If you don't believe me, here's a wiki summary from one of the best books written on the subject, Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People (written in 1937!):

Be a Leader: How to Change People Without Giving Offense or Arousing Resentment

1. Begin with praise and honest appreciation. People will do things begrudgingly for criticism and an iron-fisted leader, but they will work wonders when they are praised and appreciated.

2. Call attention to people's mistakes indirectly. No one likes to make mistakes, especially in front of others. Scolding and blaming only serves to humiliate. If we subtly and indirectly show people mistakes, they will appreciate us and be more likely to improve.

3. Talk about your own mistakes before criticizing the other person. When something goes wrong, taking responsibility can help win others to your side. People do not like to shoulder all the blame and taking credit for mistakes helps to remove the sting from our critiques of others.

4. Ask questions instead of giving direct orders. No one likes to take orders. If we offer suggestions, rather than orders, it will boost others confidence and allow them to learn quickly from their mistakes.

5. Let the other person save face. Nothing diminishes the dignity of a man quite like an insult to his pride. If we don't condemn our employees in front of others and allow them to save face, they will be motivated to do better in the future and confident that they can.

6. Praise every improvement. People love to receive praise and admiration. If we truly want someone to improve at something, we must praise their every advance. "Abilities wither under criticism, they blossom under encouragement."

7. Give the other person a fine reputation to live up to. If we give people a great reputation to live up to, they will desire to embody the characteristics with which we have described them. People will work with vigor and confidence if they believe they can be better.

8. Use encouragement. Make the fault seem easy to correct. If a desired outcome seems like a momentous task, people will give up and lose heart. But if a fault seems easy to correct, they will readily jump at the opportunity to improve. If we frame objectives as small and easy improvements, we will see dramatic increases in desire and success in our employees.

9. Make the other person happy about doing what you suggest. People will most often respond well when they desire to do the behavior put forth. If we want to influence people and become effective leaders, we must learn to frame our desires in terms of others' desires.


Now I'm not saying you need to do every one of those things. But like you said, your way isn't very effective at changing behavior, so if that's really your goal (and not just to seem superior to someone else) maybe try another way.

Hope this helps! :)
06/17/2016 08:10 PMPosted by SPDCPA
Most people are way, way, way too sensitive then.

I'm not saying "L2P NUB AND QUIT YER FEEDING!!!!111!!!."

I'm pointing out why they're dying, as in overextending or bad positioning, and asking them to fix it, constructively.

If people can't handle that level of criticism they shouldn't be playing multiplayer games.


You've actually hit the problem on the head and may not realize how much you did just now.

People, for whatever reason, over the last decade or more, have been trained more to do what makes them feel good / happy / what they think is right instead of adding their voice to the team.

Far too many people, in whole, won't listen because they are carrying a ton of communication baggage.

Something that frustrates me is a game like this could act so, so, so powerfully as a conduit of social engineering through bringing people together as a team.

Heroes doesn't do this though.
At levels where your teammates do all that silly stuff, the other team has players doing the same things.

Learn to pick heroes that can punish mistakes and punish them. You can't pick healers or tanks with low damage in these games and expect to make a difference. Learn to play Thrall, Sonya, Anub'Arak, Falstad, Zeratul, Raynor and so on. Heroes that have decent self sustain and you can use to punish players with.

Also, while these players do exist at lower levels and will cost you the game from time to time, most players actually want to win, want to do well and will listen. You just have to give them clear and short instructions and most will actually follow. Don't whine. Don't be long winded. If they don't respond to instructions, let it go and let them do their thing. You can't do anything about it. You can still win without them at lower levels.

06/17/2016 06:53 PMPosted by Tuna

A lot of what I do depends on what Hero I'm playing.
For example, if I'm playing a Support I do my best to keep as many people alive for as long as possible. Now, this might seem what a Support usually does, but in a bad game I tend to try to pay closer attention. With a good team I really only have to keep an eye on everyone's health bar, but with a bad team I really have to watch everything super closely.


If I had to play at a very low level and wanted to climb in rankings, I would never play support. You simply can't carry as a support. It's better to deal with the odd upset person who figured you'd pick a support last and have a hero you can punish bad opponents with than having to play support, which is a largely reactive role and you can't make a big difference with.

I wouldn't advice people at low level to stop playing support. Pick it when the team needs it. It's also good to learn to play support because eventually you will have to at higher levels.

But realize it's the heroes that can punish mistakes that will take you out of bronze, silver and gold.
06/17/2016 10:15 PMPosted by Ettan

06/17/2016 06:53 PMPosted by Tuna

A lot of what I do depends on what Hero I'm playing.
For example, if I'm playing a Support I do my best to keep as many people alive for as long as possible. Now, this might seem what a Support usually does, but in a bad game I tend to try to pay closer attention. With a good team I really only have to keep an eye on everyone's health bar, but with a bad team I really have to watch everything super closely.


If I had to play at a very low level and wanted to climb in rankings, I would never play support. You simply can't carry as a support. It's better to deal with the odd upset person who figured you'd pick a support last and have a hero you can punish bad opponents with than having to play support, which is a largely reactive role and you can't make a big difference with.


Yes, well sometimes the team is shellfish and everyone picks assassins. Somebody has to pick support and if no one else is willing I'll do my best to fill. It's not my best role, and my highest win rate Support is Tassadar, but I'll fill when I need to.
06/17/2016 02:59 PMPosted by KungFurryCat


Don't go mad. chill and listen to a soothing music.


turn on Lucio's heal jams
06/17/2016 02:44 PMPosted by Lighthammer
Ok, since there continues to be this debate that your SOUL PERFORMANCE can help you raise rank, I'd like to toss out some of what I am saying in the MMR Hell territory and I'd like to see what people suggest to deal with these problems:

- Zagara lanes ALL GAME. Refuses to listen to pings to join team fights.

- Tank is never at team fights, often trying to take camps solo.

- Illidan uses Hunt perpetually on cooldown into the enemy team without support and dies every game.

- Every objective has 3 players show up turning the fights into lop sided 3v5s all game.

- Thrall keeps diving into the towers for seemingly no reason but is obviously playing bad, not straight trolling.

- Team refuses to communicate.

- Players obviously pick heroes they want to play over heroes that will complete the team comp.

Let's start the conversation on these points.


You either disable allied chat or get silenced for trying to get your teammates on track.

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