Greymane buff...

Hero Feedback
I think the buff damage in worgen form is a HUGE mistake. But some complains about him. Can't wait to see the complain in the next few weeks about nerfing is damage.
It's not as big a buff as it looks.

It's partly to compensate for the nerf to his basic attack damage in human form.
07/05/2016 10:49 AMPosted by Aldrius
It's not as big a buff as it looks.

It's partly to compensate for the nerf to his basic attack damage in human form.

Which was a really bizarre choice, because the consensus on Greymane was that his human form was too weak compared to the worgen form.
I still think it's a bit weird that they buffed it at all... I thought the general consensus was that Worgen form was fine and everything, but since Cocktail nerf human form felt meh.

So they fix it by nerfing human form's AA's and buffing Worgen?

As far as the numbers as a whole goes:

Current - 145 damage base Human, 305 at 20, 427 at 20 in Worgen.

New - 140 damage base Human, 294 at 20, 442 at 20 in Worgen.

About 3.7% less damage in Human form and about 3.5% more damage in Worgen.

To be fair, the scariest change for him looks to be the new Eager Wolf talent... Extra 40% AS sounds terrifying.

Using the above numbers, that'll mean 558 DPS in human form and 839 DPS in Worgen form. I.e. He will now blow away every other hero in the game for AA DPS potential (35 stack Blood Frenzy Butcher is now put to shame)
Well I think they're trying to consolidate the two forms anyway.

The change to his level 16 talents for example I think is to make it less that you spec for one or the other. And more that talents will effect both forms or can effect both forms anyway.
07/05/2016 11:14 AMPosted by Taril
I still think it's a bit weird that they buffed it at all... I thought the general consensus was that Worgen form was fine and everything, but since Cocktail nerf human form felt meh.

So they fix it by nerfing human form's AA's and buffing Worgen?

As far as the numbers as a whole goes:

Current - 145 damage base Human, 305 at 20, 427 at 20 in Worgen.

New - 140 damage base Human, 294 at 20, 442 at 20 in Worgen.

About 3.7% less damage in Human form and about 3.5% more damage in Worgen.

To be fair, the scariest change for him looks to be the new Eager Wolf talent... Extra 40% AS sounds terrifying.

Using the above numbers, that'll mean 558 DPS in human form and 839 DPS in Worgen form. I.e. He will now blow away every other hero in the game for AA DPS potential (35 stack Blood Frenzy Butcher is now put to shame)


You are wrong on numbers so let me correct you.
Base damage is level 0, so real damage is:

Current - 145*(1.04)^20=318 at 20 in Human, 445 at 20 in Worgen.

New - 140*(1.04)^20=307 at 20 in Human, 460 at 20 in Worgen.

Eager Wolf talent increase attack speed by 40% so it basically increase DPS by 40%. Inner Beast already boosts DPS by 50%.
So the overall increase is not 90% but 1.5*1.4=2.1, in other words 110% attack speed bonus.

So new Worgen highest DPS at level 20 is 460*2.1=966.
So yeah, the damage is even scarier.
Honestly, it feels like his burst is a bit scarier, his poke is a bit weaker.

His talent choices will be identical, except that eager wolf sounds fairly autopick right now. All you need to do is get a shot or two in before you leap and your burst gets a massive jump.

Q build is still dead, incendiary is now a lot easier to stack, but isn't any more useful.
07/05/2016 11:14 AMPosted by Taril
I still think it's a bit weird that they buffed it at all... I thought the general consensus was that Worgen form was fine and everything, but since Cocktail nerf human form felt meh.

So they fix it by nerfing human form's AA's and buffing Worgen?

As far as the numbers as a whole goes:

Current - 145 damage base Human, 305 at 20, 427 at 20 in Worgen.

New - 140 damage base Human, 294 at 20, 442 at 20 in Worgen.

About 3.7% less damage in Human form and about 3.5% more damage in Worgen.

To be fair, the scariest change for him looks to be the new Eager Wolf talent... Extra 40% AS sounds terrifying.

Using the above numbers, that'll mean 558 DPS in human form and 839 DPS in Worgen form. I.e. He will now blow away every other hero in the game for AA DPS potential (35 stack Blood Frenzy Butcher is now put to shame)


You are wrong on numbers so let me correct you.
Base damage is level 0, so real damage is:

Current - 145*(1.04)^20=318 at 20 in Human, 445 at 20 in Worgen.

New - 140*(1.04)^20=307 at 20 in Human, 460 at 20 in Worgen.

Eager Wolf talent increase attack speed by 40% so it basically increase DPS by 40%. Inner Beast already boosts DPS by 50%.
So the overall inscrease is not 90% but 1.5*1.4=2.1, in other words 110% attack speed bonus.

So new Worgen highest DPS at level 20 is 460*2.1=966.
So yeah, the damage is even scarier.


You're mistaking how attack boosts stack. Inner Wolf gives +50% attack speed normally, and Eager Wolf gives an additional +40% for +90% attack speed total.
...

You are wrong on numbers so let me correct you.
Base damage is level 0, so real damage is:

Current - 145*(1.04)^20=318 at 20 in Human, 445 at 20 in Worgen.

New - 140*(1.04)^20=307 at 20 in Human, 460 at 20 in Worgen.

Eager Wolf talent increase attack speed by 40% so it basically increase DPS by 40%. Inner Beast already boosts DPS by 50%.
So the overall inscrease is not 90% but 1.5*1.4=2.1, in other words 110% attack speed bonus.

So new Worgen highest DPS at level 20 is 460*2.1=966.
So yeah, the damage is even scarier.


You're mistaking how attack boosts stack. Inner Wolf gives +50% attack speed normally, and Eager Wolf gives an additional +40% for +90% attack speed total.


That's not how pourcentages work. If the DPS is written x :
Increase by 50% is equivalent to multiply by 1.5, so new DPS is 1.5*x
Increase by 40% is equivalent to multiply by 1.4, new DPS is 1.4*x

So if you apply the two buffs, the damage modfier is 1.5*1.4*x=2.1*x, but 2.1*x=x+1.1*x, that means it is a 110% increase.
07/05/2016 11:45 AMPosted by Cirdec
So if you apply the two buffs, the damage modfier is 1.5*1.4*x=2.1*x, but 2.1*x=x+1.1*x, that means it is a 110% increase.


Percentage modifiers in HotS are additive, not multiplicative.

Making the total AS increase from 50% baseline IB + 40% EW into 90% not 110%.
07/05/2016 12:03 PMPosted by Taril
07/05/2016 11:45 AMPosted by Cirdec
So if you apply the two buffs, the damage modfier is 1.5*1.4*x=2.1*x, but 2.1*x=x+1.1*x, that means it is a 110% increase.


Percentage modifiers in HotS are additive, not multiplicative.

Making the total AS increase from 50% baseline IB + 40% EW into 90% not 110%.


Exactly. A 40% buff is not x * 1.4, but x + 0.4x.

In this case the total damage is x + 0.5x + 0.4x = 1.9x
With the new eager wolf, in the shop try mode, you reach 1.9 attack speed.
So after 4 seconds of inner beast activation, you will have an insane attack speed to poke ennemies which will compensate the lost of human basic attacks dps. And then you can go in worgen form to dive on a squishy. And on a squishy, the bonus dps from the attack speed may be better than the 3% max health of enemy hero.
This is going to be quite scary. Greymane can already shred a Falstad to half health in the blink of an eye, but now he's going to be even stronger at it.

I also don't see any limitation that says Eager Wolf is for Worgen Form only. This could be a pretty serious buff if you had the proper support to keep you going, and possibly superior to Alpha Killer if you wanted to focus on Human Form damage and didn't mind the 4 second activation time.
Greymane / Xul first ban new meta !
07/05/2016 11:14 AMPosted by Taril
I still think it's a bit weird that they buffed it at all... I thought the general consensus was that Worgen form was fine and everything, but since Cocktail nerf human form felt meh.

So they fix it by nerfing human form's AA's and buffing Worgen?

[/quote]

Tyrael has no sustain, a bad trait, low damage, a bad talent tree and lot of generics, yet they "fix it" by buffing trait talents and talents based on his low damage AA.
Don't try to find logic in Blizz decisions.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum