Specialist meta incoming!

General Discussion
These patch notes are the dawn of a new age. An age when mages no longer run the Nexus. An age where specialists will actually be viable and needed. An age when lane pushing will become valuable, when lane bullies are valued. When raw hero dmg may not win games.

Aba getting a buff, Azmodan push build getting a buff. Gazlowe's Robo-Goblin getting a huge buff and Zagara completely reworked, that's gonna stir quit a few things!

But the 2 biggest changes of all, the ones that make all the above named heroes all the more powerful are the changes to minions and catapults.

Minions deal double damage to structures! Cursed Hollow games are gonna end quick!
Catapults' range increased and no longer stop attacking the core when minions spawn.

And to top it up, regen globes give more health and wells give more mana.

So put those KTs, Li-mIngs and Valla's back in QM and bring out Xul, Aba, Sylvanas and even those strong later like thrall and Chen, they gonna take over!

Pros: good specialists will have a MUCH bigger impact and this will shake up the meta, which will initially be good, or rather refreshing.
Cons: Split pushing is gonna be a big thing to do. So chances to see your specialist joining in to the team fight are going to grow smaller.
+ It's going to be frustrating to play PvE for a big part of the game if the enemy is good at pushing.
+ I think minions distracting catapults was a good thing. Now those backdoor pushes will be very hard to stop and even when that part goes well, you still gonna need your core to survive the damage from the leftover catapults.

So is that a good thing? I think initially yes, it will be. But I worry that playing against minions is less skillful than playing against heroes. Timing and rotations are going to be crucial but is that what we want to be at the heart of the game outcome? Only time will tell.
KT has one of the best waveclears.

Li Ming has decentish waveclear and can talent into excellent wave clear. Valla has good waveclear.
07/05/2016 03:25 PMPosted by Floboss
These patch notes are the dawn of a new age. An age when mages no longer run the Nexus. An age where specialists will actually be viable and needed. An age when lane pushing will become valuable, when lane bullies are valued. When raw hero dmg may not win games.

Aba getting a buff, Azmodan push build getting a buff. Gazlowe's Robo-Goblin getting a huge buff and Zagara completely reworked, that's gonna stir quit a few things!

But the 2 biggest changes of all, the ones that make all the above named heroes all the more powerful are the changes to minions and catapults.

Minions deal double damage to structures! Cursed Hollow games are gonna end quick!
Catapults' range increased and no longer stop attacking the core when minions spawn.

And to top it up, regen globes give more health and wells give more mana.

So put those KTs, Li-mIngs and Valla's back in QM and bring out Xul, Aba, Sylvanas and even those strong later like thrall and Chen, they gonna take over!

Pros: good specialists will have a MUCH bigger impact and this will shake up the meta, which will initially be good, or rather refreshing.
Cons: Split pushing is gonna be a big thing to do. So chances to see your specialist joining in to the team fight are going to grow smaller.
+ It's going to be frustrating to play PvE for a big part of the game if the enemy is good at pushing.
+ I think minions distracting catapults was a good thing. Now those backdoor pushes will be very hard to stop and even when that part goes well, you still gonna need your core to survive the damage from the leftover catapults.

So is that a good thing? I think initially yes, it will be. But I worry that playing against minions is less skillful than playing against heroes. Timing and rotations are going to be crucial but is that what we want to be at the heart of the game outcome? Only time will tell.


FINALLY OUR TIME HAS COME!!!
Specialists seem buffed in general, and that is a good thing, but i don't think the meta will change that drastically.
Things were starting to push that way anyway, just now this change is gonna push it further
Gaz is gonna get another buff?
07/05/2016 03:35 PMPosted by Slarg232
Gaz is gonna get another buff?


Yes he is, only in the pushing build though, turret XL damage buff and more importantly, Damage bonus from Robo-Goblin up from 150% to 200%.
The minion damage buff means that winning the lane is more impactful. Early game, you aren't really strong enough to do much damage to a tower in a solo one vs one situation. The most you could do was escort your minions to the enemies tower to drain some ammo. With the new changes, the minions can perhaps do some damage to the tower also.
Here's what I see. Larger individal impact and less 5 man gank roam squads.

When the game is less reliant on 4 other dimwits coming to the objective, and more reliant on good positional map awareness, you have more carrying potential.

That is the part I'm really looking forward to.
I look at Zagara's new Infest in cohesion to the minion's buff against structures.

I got to say- she's going to be MORE of a monster to maps like Cursed Hallow with this.
As a specialist main, in my opinion they over did it.

50% damage increase vs buildings would have been good enough.

I'm afraid with 100% they will just hurt the diversity again. Just in the opposite direction.
07/05/2016 03:45 PMPosted by Floboss
07/05/2016 03:35 PMPosted by Slarg232
Gaz is gonna get another buff?


Yes he is, only in the pushing build though, turret XL damage buff and more importantly, Damage bonus from Robo-Goblin up from 150% to 200%.


A-HA! Anyone order a one man wrecking crew?!?
07/05/2016 04:15 PMPosted by zlajo
As a specialist main, in my opinion they over did it.

50% damage increase vs buildings would have been good enough.

I'm afraid with 100% they will just hurt the diversity again. Just in the opposite direction.


I think it's fine. If anything I'll be happy if specialists think they can YOLO Lane against me in a match.

As a diamond player who prefers gank assassins, I can smell a split push from a mile away. It only takes a few seconds to roam, pickup a free gank, then return to your team.

Early game you will get forts and get XP advantage, which is good for your team, but lategame you will be watching your 60s+ deathtimer as we easily push your lane back and then 4v5 the objective.

I DO love that they're balancing it, though. In Alpha and Beta I mained specialists because we only had QM and specialists are the easiest heroes to carry with. Hell, as murky I can push then 1v1 any squishie who trys to push me back but it's not viable in high MMR games. I think these changes will help beinge back specialist/split pushers into high MMR games.

I used to also take azmo on BHB during preseason and would go PVE build to solo boss and split bot hard. Won the majority of my HL that way on my way to rank 1
It's probably a good thing that Blizzard reminded us of Dehaka's existence by putting him in the patch notes. Him, Falstad and Zeratul are going to have a field day murdering the AFK splitpushers any time they think about going across the halfway point in the map.

I do expect waveclear to be at a higher premium now than since the Leoric vs Johanna days of the game, and for Abathur to be in a very good spot as a splitpusher who can push without necessarily showing himself on the map.
On my phone but wanted to add they nerfd pushing HARD, MULTIPLE times and forced the meta into a burst meta (before now)

I'm excited to go back to a balance between pushing and objectives since they over tuned the focus on obj.

The only time split push is toxic is when zag and Abby could backdoor keeps and cores without damaging a fort, but all that was removed so we're fine.
Blizzard is doing a huge mistake with that (buffing split pushers) idea, because this game is a team base game and its even more so in hots than any other moba and now we are going to be infested by players that just wants to pve instead of team fighting.
Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this? How is it skillful, fun, or even interesting gameplay by having one mongoloid specialist suicide himself into buildings over and over solo. Even if this is the most effective method of playing the game, can you honestly say this is healthy for the game?

I think specialists are just find how they are at the moment
07/05/2016 05:46 PMPosted by Lightsy
Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this? How is it skillful, fun, or even interesting gameplay by having one mongoloid specialist suicide himself into buildings over and over solo.


Murky?
So if you weren't first-banning/picking Xul on Infernal Shrines and Spider Tomb before, you better !@#$ing get started.
This is too much, buffing minion damage to double vs structures. It's not going to help diversify hero choices, it's just going to shift it in the opposite direction; the heroes that have poor wave clear or poor pushing potential will never be chosen (ie. Tyrande), and specialists that were already strong at lane pushing will be blatantly OP (Xul and Sylvanas).

I don't know why specialists are suddenly being buffed to these insane heights, when specialists weren't even in that bad of a position now. There must be some other way of buffing split-pushing without turning the meta on its head and making specialists OP, or making winions the win condition in 90% of games.

So what is it? Blizzard wants specialists to have an impact on the game other than team fights? But I thought specialist wasn't supposed to mean a lane-pusher, that's the whole reason they changed their class icon from a tower to a star.

Edit: I don't want triple specialist to become the new meta.

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