Haunted Mines or Braxis Holdout

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Dear Blizzard

If you're going to remove a map (Haunted Mines) for reason A, do not then release a new map (Braxis Holdout) that has reason A x ten, as well as reasons B, C and D. Such a move is rather stupid and irritating.

Give us Haunted Mines back at the very least.
Personnaly I did'nt like Haunted Mines but I agree that Braxis holdout as a similar feeling and snowball so quick. Did'nt have a game other than one team crushing the other.
I've been extremely disappointed with Braxis Holdout. It's just Haunted Mines without the mine section or the 'you got zero skulls, but we're still giving you a golem even though it won't do anything'. The first time I played Braxis Holdout, we helped our first zerg wave push through a gate, a fort, another gate, and bring their keep down to just below half. That was without Sylvanas. If I had been Sylvanas instead of Zagara, we quite possibly could have been able to push for the Core at the five minute mark.

Terribad idea to have such a huge difference between a 100% zerg wave and a 0% zerg wave.
Some of you people seem to be forgetting, or just didn't bother to play more to notice, the three very crucial differences between Haunted Mines and Braxis Holdout.

1. The Grave Golem in Haunted Mines came back and continued his assault from the exact same spot where he was killed last time and continued to do so until the game was over. The Zerg Rush always starts from either the bottom or top middle part of the map. They don't just spawn to the last location where they were last killed.

2. Unlike the Grave Golem the Zerg Rush doesn't just push one of the two lanes all game. They switch lanes so they never push the same one twice in a row.

And 3. Unlike the Grave Golem who just kept on going focusing only on enemy structures not giving a sh*t about enemy players, minions or mercenaries the Zerg Rush can be halted by players and their minions and mercs, thus slowing if not completely stopping their advance thus saving your structures.

Still think they're the same?
09/16/2016 10:52 AMPosted by Siperos
Some of you people seem to be forgetting, or just didn't bother to play more to notice, the three very crucial differences between Haunted Mines and Braxis Holdout.

1. The Grave Golem in Haunted Mines came back and continued his assault from the exact same spot where he was killed last time and continued to do so until the game was over. The Zerg Rush always starts from either the bottom or top middle part of the map. They don't just spawn to the last location where they were last killed.

2. Unlike the Grave Golem the Zerg Rush doesn't just push one of the two lanes all game. They switch lanes so they never push the same one twice in a row.

And 3. Unlike the Grave Golem who just kept on going focusing only on enemy structures not giving a sh*t about enemy players, minions or mercenaries the Zerg Rush can be halted by players and their minions and mercs, thus slowing if not completely stopping their advance thus saving your structures.

Still think they're the same?


No, we think that Braxis is a worse version of Mines. Read the posts.
exactly and if sylvanas or hammer is picked thats already gg, i think the forts should have more health and have more power
Or perhaps, let both Zerg waves collide in the same lane... That at least would stall by a little percent.

As well as increase the amount it takes to cap... Capping objectives take up to 1 minute easily on other maps. OR are objectives where teamfights occur.
09/16/2016 01:54 PMPosted by Gigaus
No, we think that Braxis is a worse version of Mines. Read the posts.
I did. And they're all stupid. Saying Mines was better even though Braxis doesn't have the flaws I listed that made Mines terrible in the first place.
@topic if they add haunted mines like it was, you had two maps to hate for the same reason.

09/16/2016 10:52 AMPosted by Siperos
Some of you people seem to be forgetting, or just didn't bother to play more to notice, the three very crucial differences between Haunted Mines and Braxis Holdout.

1. The Grave Golem in Haunted Mines came back and continued his assault from the exact same spot where he was killed last time and continued to do so until the game was over. The Zerg Rush always starts from either the bottom or top middle part of the map. They don't just spawn to the last location where they were last killed.

2. Unlike the Grave Golem the Zerg Rush doesn't just push one of the two lanes all game. They switch lanes so they never push the same one twice in a row.

And 3. Unlike the Grave Golem who just kept on going focusing only on enemy structures not giving a sh*t about enemy players, minions or mercenaries the Zerg Rush can be halted by players and their minions and mercs, thus slowing if not completely stopping their advance thus saving your structures.

Still think they're the same?


Your points are true, but:
1. Even a 0skullgolem still could kill a tower if undefended (and if I remembered correctly ;)). => You have to def, but the expdifference of buildings killed wasn`t that huge. There was also pretty much no way that you could get a 100 golem earlygame, while a 100%zerg vs 0-30% is possible and basically feels like a 100-0 golem.

2. The golem was 1 unit. Singletargetdmg = AoE-Dmg to clear him. Braxis is like 1000 units. Every singletarget hero is just bad for defense. Plus the golem went melee, you have to leave your base pretty far to kill the big guys in the back => Meleeheroes are not really good to clear.

3. 1000 units also mean that you can`t hit enemy heroes between the zergs with skillshots like Li-Ming Orb/Missile. => Huge meatshield for heroes like sylv or heroes that have enough poke to keep you away.

(2+3 = melee, skillshot and singletarget heroes are +/- bad if you try to def + lategameheroes too. Thats a huge part of the heropool.)

4. The map is covered with like 100 bushes and there is no natural source of vision between the cap-points(Dragonshire has 3 lanes between both points, Braxis 0).

5. Braxis also has similar problems like haunted mines. If obj isn`t up, there isn`t much to do: Soak 2 lanes, 4mercs, 1 boss. The enemy can do everything w/o even showing a single hero on the map. The leading team can snowball this so hard. Other than boss nothing takes a lot of time and there are so much bushes to hide in that you can`t really leave your base safely anymore as soon as your forts are dead.
As mercs don`t give exp to the defenders anymore, it is even a bigger deal on a 2 lanemap if you can`t pick up your own camps and they are like 1 screen away from enemycamps...

How I`d fix it:
- Increase the basezergs to a level where they at least could push in a wave.
- Decrease the health of the big guys or let them scale hard but start them of weak.
- Switch positions of healthglobe and cappoint. The fact that you can`t get any free information of who is where isn`t good.
- too much bushes to camp in.
09/16/2016 06:59 PMPosted by Rand

- Switch positions of healthglobe and cappoint. The fact that you can`t get any free information of who is where isn`t good.
- too much bushes to camp in.
Why is that a bad thing? Serious, try to communicate with the team to find out where they are. Pick vision heroes like Lunara/Zagara to gain that small advantage.

Try hide in it yourself.

I don't see bushes as a bad thing, instead of something that can more clearly define certain features of certain players. Those that watch their mini-map closely and communicate with their team shall have less to no trouble with the bushes.

That's perfect since it allows people to differentiate by their own skill in gaming.

The biggest problem I see with some players, is the fact they don't check their mini-map enough AND that they keep standing still on the objective. Once you got it, just stay near it but NOT on it! If you are on it you are a sitting duck ready to be shot.

Ps: yes, Braxis hold has it's problem...the biggest being the difference between a 100% and a 0% wave. But bushes aint one of them!
09/16/2016 10:20 AMPosted by Drraken
I've been extremely disappointed with Braxis Holdout. It's just Haunted Mines without the mine section or the 'you got zero skulls, but we're still giving you a golem even though it won't do anything'. The first time I played Braxis Holdout, we helped our first zerg wave push through a gate, a fort, another gate, and bring their keep down to just below half. That was without Sylvanas. If I had been Sylvanas instead of Zagara, we quite possibly could have been able to push for the Core at the five minute mark.

Terribad idea to have such a huge difference between a 100% zerg wave and a 0% zerg wave.


that is a problem involving sylvanas... not the map...

sylvanas trait is still way to powerfull (seeing she can dish out assasin like damage + siege)
09/18/2016 12:31 AMPosted by Extatica
I don't see bushes as a bad thing, instead of something that can more clearly define certain features of certain players. Those that watch their mini-map closely and communicate with their team shall have less to no trouble with the bushes.

That's perfect since it allows people to differentiate by their own skill in gaming.


Bushes aren`t a bad thing, but the fact that there are 50 bushes in an area that don`t provide any "free" vision isn`t that great.
On every other map you can watch the minimap and know where most enemies are. On braxis you can`t really do that as every1 who goes for obj., camps + ganks go in the same area.
09/16/2016 10:52 AMPosted by Siperos
Some of you people seem to be forgetting, or just didn't bother to play more to notice, the three very crucial differences between Haunted Mines and Braxis Holdout.

1. The Grave Golem in Haunted Mines came back and continued his assault from the exact same spot where he was killed last time and continued to do so until the game was over. The Zerg Rush always starts from either the bottom or top middle part of the map. They don't just spawn to the last location where they were last killed.

2. Unlike the Grave Golem the Zerg Rush doesn't just push one of the two lanes all game. They switch lanes so they never push the same one twice in a row.

And 3. Unlike the Grave Golem who just kept on going focusing only on enemy structures not giving a sh*t about enemy players, minions or mercenaries the Zerg Rush can be halted by players and their minions and mercs, thus slowing if not completely stopping their advance thus saving your structures.

Still think they're the same?


The same comment your spamming all the forums with I see.
09/24/2016 06:42 AMPosted by Bubblesqueak
The same comment your spamming all the forums with I see.
Indeed I do. Because I don't bother to type the exact same stuff multiple times to multiple threads complaining about the same thing, that's why.

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