The reason greymane sucks and underplayed

General Discussion
because unlike 99% of the melees in the game, he has no self sustain xD
By that logic Samuro is a trash underplayed hero too? >>

JK, you realize there's plenty melees in game that also don't get raw sustain? 99% is a far stretch from the number of chars out there that're melee.
11/22/2016 06:32 PMPosted by Kage
By that logic Samuro is a trash underplayed hero too? >>


I said 99% of all melee heroes.
And It it werent for his decoys, speed boost, cloaks,etc and other escapes, then yea.
11/22/2016 06:48 PMPosted by Scyn
11/22/2016 06:32 PMPosted by Kage
By that logic Samuro is a trash underplayed hero too? >>


I said 99% of all melee heroes.
And It it werent for his decoys, speed boost, cloaks,etc and other escapes, then yea.


9 melee assassins including GM and varian
15 warriors if you count Rexxar's misha
3 mele specialists

27total chars 2-27 is 2 in 27 is 93% but a few of chars in that pool also have no self heals
7-27 25% of mele heroes do not have self heals
gazlow
murky
tyreal
diablo - diablo can talent in to D but no one does as far as i know :P
zarya

are we just talking about assassins?
because i would say Alarak has very little sustain 2 his E heal can even be talented out

zeratool has no sustain unless you talent in to his medic

kerrigan has passive shields and can talent in to her Q to heal but again very little sustain

but lets say 2 out of 9 don't have sustain that's 78% other assassins have "sustain"
if you count zera keri alarak 5 out of 9 melee assassins have very little sustain so 55% of melee assassins are in the same boat as GM

the reason GM is not played as much is because he has been nerfed a little hard
its nothing to do with sustain
The talent to his escape that makes him invis after rolling is mandatory and should be baseline imo.
Not to mention not that long ago Greymane was a secret OP hero and even then he didn't have self sustain.

Every person who claims he needs self sustain shows they do t actually know the hero. He doesn't need it, he never had it, and he isn't going to get it. Try sudgesting something that will actually bring him back to the balanced state he was at instead.
11/22/2016 07:13 PMPosted by Xzoviac
because i would say Alarak has very little sustain 2 his E heal can even be talented out


Alarak can sustain quite sufficient if enemies are lined, they give a buff range for it last patch. Maintain a high Sadism it's great poke heals.
11/22/2016 07:13 PMPosted by Xzoviac

because i would say Alarak has very little sustain 2 his E heal can even be talented out

What are you talking about? Alarak's E is amazing, it gives him almost as much sustain as Thrall if used correctly. And, more importantly, its safe sustain.

As for Greymane, the reason his winrate is so low is because most of his original builds and ults have been nerfed in some way or another over the last several months, and he hasn't been compensated properly. This makes it very hard for him to kill people quickly and get out before his weakness of no sustain kicks in.

So in general, the lack of self sustain is at least part of why he's not doing well, but he never had sustain and yet still had a dominant winrate for the first half of the year. The nail in the coffin, so to speak, is his overall lack of damage now, making the lack of sustain much more noticeable than it used to be. Really the only time I've seen Greymanes succeed in the last few months is when they have a pocket medic or an otherwise very dedicated healer, along with at least one other diver to engage with him.
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11/22/2016 07:31 PMPosted by candyman851
What are you talking about? Alarak's E is amazing, it gives him almost as much sustain as Thrall if used correctly. And, more importantly, its safe sustain.


Safer and doesn't require talents to hit afar range. Think of him like a Thrall/Kerrigan hybrid with ton utility you're able to exploit.
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And yes, on this post Greymane has been bad for while due to the vast majority of builds that got hit or frequently changed they don't work well now. Cocktail was an easy nuke button, it got changed into a backline killer that's horrible. Worgen burst WAS buffed in last couple patches then rolled back for tuning, basically reverted the burst on GftT. Beforehand human damage had slight numbers shaved off for the damage. They kept it after all this time.

The last nerfs done on GM was hit on his popular choices like Wolfheart uptime for Inner Beast and Stealth on E (Eyes in the Dark), he takes more effort to play, problem there isn't lot builds to succeed alternatively being bottlenecked from several debuffs prior. He has lower winrate overall than Alarak that risen up this past week now, no tweaks. Greymane needs help.
11/22/2016 06:48 PMPosted by Scyn
11/22/2016 06:32 PMPosted by Kage
By that logic Samuro is a trash underplayed hero too? >>


I said 99% of all melee heroes.
And It it werent for his decoys, speed boost, cloaks,etc and other escapes, then yea.


And if it weren't for his ranged form, burst, disengage and poke then Greymane would be trash indeed. He has all that, though.
It's pretty simple, actually. Greymane has no sustain or CC... all he brings to the table is damage. They took away a bunch of his damage, and now he's subpar. Maybe they should give some back. Radical idea, I know.
11/22/2016 07:47 PMPosted by Psychic
Greymane is a still a good hero. It's just that low MMR trash can't use a mouse properly.


Nah. Im master level, you are what? silver/gold?. Dont think your opinion is valid m8. And judging by your post history, you sound like a salty noob!. So gtfo.
The problem with Greymane is that he has subpar ranged damage and his melee burst have been nerfed too hard.

Stay ranged - your damage is outshined by any AA assassin except Tracer. Go melee - unless enemy is low hp you most likely wont kill anyone fast enough.
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11/22/2016 06:24 PMPosted by Scyn
because unlike 99% of the melees in the game, he has no self sustain xD

There are 29 melee heroes in the game (TLV is counted as one here).
99% of all melee heroes is 28.71.
That leaves 0.29 melee heroes left with self sustain.
Since 0.29 is not a whole hero, and by the laws of rounding up/down, that gives us 0.
So 0 melee heroes with self sustain.
That seems quite balanced <3
Greymane was picked 90%+ by the pros back when he came out until his recent nerfs, and that was without any form of self-sustain. Ergo, it makes no sense to claim that he's weak because of a lack of self-sustain. He didn't have that back when he was ripping people apart in his tournament prime. Heck, even now he's not a "bad" hero by any means and will work in the right hands and comp.

He simply needs some of those recent nerfs tweaked to give him a "nudge" back up the ladder. Giving him a bit of his lost power back should strike a much better balance between his original dominant form and his newer lacking form.
It's time to bring the cocktail back, I don't care if it do not explode on miss but that double damage burst is required, and its not OP anymore with current power level.
Greymane gets a 4 second cloaked disengage at level 4. Use it.

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