Zeratul got Nova'd

General Discussion
I don't have much to say. Simply the rework turned Zeratul into post rework Nova. Unless you play like a pro player and give your best and a bit more you won't be able to do even a decent job as Zeratul. As a player who used Zeratul a lot in HL and normal games as well I'm completely disappointed. To deal any meaningfull damage I have to wait untill level 16. Same situation like with Nova. The difference is that as Nova I can poke with decoy and I have a huge range compared to other ranged assassins. Why would I need all those blinks on Zeratul if it's impossible to stay long in a fight (obviously he is a squishy assassin not meant for long fights). Pre rework auto attack build was still strong and even if requiered to stay longer, you had enough damage to do a decent job at level 7 already. Now before you get enough damage you are dead or forced to back off.
before the rework you took regen master at 1, vorpal at 4 and follow through at 7.

now you get follow thru at 4 which means at level 7 you do literally the same amount of dmg as you did before the rework.

you have poke on zera too with wormhole and you also have a useful ult in terms of utility unlike nova

i do agree the auto atack build got deleted. seasoned marksman is gone, searing is gone and the lvl 13 talent which name i cant remember is gona too.

however i dont understand why are you complaining about it. zeratul was always meant to be a high skill hero. maybe he's not for you.
11/17/2016 03:16 AMPosted by DobreMAN
before the rework you took regen master at 1, vorpal at 4 and follow through at 7.

now you get follow thru at 4 which means at level 7 you do literally the same amount of dmg as you did before the rework.

you have poke on zera too with wormhole and you also have a useful ult in terms of utility unlike nova

i do agree the auto atack build got deleted. seasoned marksman is gone, searing is gone and the lvl 13 talent which name i cant remember is gona too.

however i dont understand why are you complaining about it. zeratul was always meant to be a high skill hero. maybe he's not for you.


He says he could play Zeratul fine before the rework - I think each rework needs to have an end goal of allowing players that played the character before to be able to it afterwards. No rework should increase the skill ceiling high enough for old players to be unable to play the character - not without a refund.

I'm not saying that the Zeratul rework is the case here, but saying that people need to stop playing a character after a rework because the character has changed too much is a horrible thing.
I know what you mean about his lack of aa damage early game now that master warp blade is at 16. However, I remain open minded about the rework.

I'm enjoying the new toys like all of the blinks and his survivability is noticeably better especially once you hit 13.
zera's W is kinda pretty useless....by taking down Shadow Spike
no longer prevent this dark templar from
remain cloaking and the range.....OMG ! can't extend further.

Oh ya....no more double bomb,
so zera can't burst damage anymore.

And where's my assassin blade?
Brazzers said that they wanna make zera to be more accurately a "Dark Templar" as per lore wise. Dark Templar should be a nimble and quick protoss but without this talent,
Zera is effing too slow! Also he can no longer burst dps after decloak.

Therefore....this is a huge nerf. I guess.....
you should thank to woodleague obese kids who refuse to l2p,
they are too lazy to adapt and improvise themselves so eventually.....
they still can't counter the cloakers !

so....the best solution for this "MMR ruiners"? nerf cloakers...
starting with

nova,

zeratul....

samuro...you're next.

credit: Jamim0 AKA Holo
I honestly really like the rework. gathering power with seeker in the dark and the talent that increases damage taken with singularity spike up really make taking ability talents more enticing than prepatch where everyone was doing AA builds.
I haven't seen enough of Zeratul's rework to be sure, but comparing it to the Nova rework is quite possibly an apt comparison. It's funny, I sort of adjusted to the post-rework Nova by almost completely giving up on playing her, for the most part. After all, Chromie came out and rendered Nova essentially useless to me. So I really had no more need for Nova.

But one of my friends (a newbie who is just learning the game) was playing her recently and commented on how he couldn't figure out why you'd ever play her, because "her damage didn't seem very good", and after playing her some more to show him how you're supposed to use her, that's when it finally occurred to me that they had actually raised Nova's skill level in the rework. The reason I was finding her less interesting and started gravitating away from her is because it takes more effort to be "good" with her now, but the payoff is still roughly the same (or even perhaps a bit less than before).

Now this doesn't mean Zeratul's been "spoiled" by raising his skill requirements. After all, one of my other friends seems to love Valla, and never got to play her in pre-rework form (which everyone here seemed to like more than her post-rework form), so there's that. But it's certainly something Blizzard ought to approach with caution. Raising the skill level on a hero with a rework ought to come with a corresponding increased payoff if your skill level is there already. If it doesn't, well....it tends to drive people away from that hero.
Zera is super fine right now.
Its so hardcore to jump in with W, have additional movement speed AND still have a blink charge to jump out any time if needed. Much stronger than the previous 1,5 secs whormhole poke.
I like new Zeratul more as well. AA build is now a bit weaker than the mage build tho.
The hero needs some tweaking but overall it was a good rework, IMHO.
11/17/2016 05:32 AMPosted by LowBob
Zera is super fine right now.
Its so hardcore to jump in with W, have additional movement speed AND still have a blink charge to jump out any time if needed. Much stronger than the previous 1,5 secs whormhole poke.


you like the W current range? and are you so certain he's megafine when his W decloak him?

I miss the ol'shadow spike....

owh one more thing......are you sure to pick SitD over SiS (Double Blink)?

=RIP Zera=

p.s: yeah yeah i know...i don't pick melee DPS in competitive play but, even he's one of my YOLO hero, doesn't mean he deserved to be gutted to this stump tier right?
I honestly really like the rework. gathering power with seeker in the dark and the talent that increases damage taken with singularity spike up really make taking ability talents more enticing than prepatch where everyone was doing AA builds.


With all respect, Gathering Power is suited for QM at best. Unless you are actually a smurf from Master/Grand Master and you plat at gold/plat level at best, enemy won't let you keep the stacks. It is the same thing it was with Nova, pre-pre-rework, but as I said you were dealing damage and had huge range.
I haven't played the new zeratul yet but i don't think i will like these changes. They completely destroyed the build that i usually used. He was my favorite hero, had him at lvl 17.
11/17/2016 03:08 AMPosted by T4underbolt
Simply the rework turned Zeratul into post rework Nova.


I dunno, I would rather get Zera 10/10 over Nova in my team. He contributes a lot more and has huge mobility now with all the different blink variants. TBH I think he is much more solid now. Before he'd give rather mediocre/low reward for the skill he required which I think is much much better now.
I'm still looking forward to playing him. To me, it seems like zeratul is meant to be a "bursty illidan, with cloak".

But, I wanted to get all my owned heroes to 10 before playing with my already-10 heroes. So, once I get Artanis and Anub to 10, I'll finally feel free to play Zeratul as much as I want. Of course, I don't have any of the heroes they're giving away with the event, so that'll be interesting if I manage to finish it..
11/17/2016 07:37 AMPosted by normalice
I'm still looking forward to playing him. To me, it seems like zeratul is meant to be a "bursty illidan, with cloak".

But, I wanted to get all my owned heroes to 10 before playing with my already-10 heroes. So, once I get Artanis and Anub to 10, I'll finally feel free to play Zeratul as much as I want. Of course, I don't have any of the heroes they're giving away with the event, so that'll be interesting if I manage to finish it..


11/17/2016 07:30 AMPosted by Noir
11/17/2016 03:08 AMPosted by T4underbolt
Simply the rework turned Zeratul into post rework Nova.


I dunno, I would rather get Zera 10/10 over Nova in my team. He contributes a lot more and has huge mobility now with all the different blink variants. TBH I think he is much more solid now. Before he'd give rather mediocre/low reward for the skill he required which I think is much much better now.


Noir and normalice. His mobility is high indeed, but he lacks damage now. He is nowhere near the damage he had before in early levels. That's why he has to be played early as Nova. Use mobility to poke and go back to safety and that's it untill level 16 when things starts to happen, but this spike is too long. So I wouldn't call him bursty illidan with cloak because his burst is not there for most part of the game. I'm going to try Ability power build as I got to Rank 1 in the past playing Nova with gathering power as one of my main heroes along with zeratul. I'll let you know in this thread how it went first in normal games and then I'll try it in HL. Eventually I'll do a new thread with my thoughts and tips on different build paths to help players get a hang with new Zeratul (I did similar thing with Nova and I was succsessfull with her after few additional tune ups from Blizzard).

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