Ragnaros Nerf Ideas

General Discussion
1) Ragnaros can be killed while he's using his trait on a fort. Also, his health in fort-form should be at the same percentage as normal Rag when he jumped on the fort. Likewise, if enemy heroes damage him while he is on the fort, he should have the same percent health when he gets off the fort.

2) 3-5 second delay after casting Lava Wave. As of now it starts at the core immediately after casting, which means heroes hear the enemy core are being hit by it as the audio warning is playing.

3) Rag has to be near the core to cast Lava Wave. That's where it starts right?

4) As an alternative to 3, or along with it, Rag should have to channel the entire time Lava Wave is going. Put him in stasis underground (like his lvl 20 talent) while he's channeling. He can cancel it of course and then the lava wave stops.

5) Maybe make Lava Wave the first friendly-fire ability. Any unit from either team caught in the wave takes the damage.

6) He is too tanky, reduce his health. I bet you can play him as a solo warrior if you take all the healing talents. A solo warrior who can depush a lane with a click and hop on a fort to double his health pool.

Do some of those and we'll see if he needs numbers tweaks later.
Erhm no? These are the worst balancing ideas I have ever heard
The just need to reduce the dmg of lave wave to heroes. Everything else seems fine right now, maybe a few number tweaks but not much.
I think it's pretty obvious Lava Wave needs a nerf. 1) and 2) I don't see how you could be against those, nothing crazy there. 3 isn't nuts either. If you don't do any of those you'll have to drop the damage in a major way.
12/16/2016 08:58 AMPosted by Chester
The just need to reduce the dmg of lave wave to heroes. Everything else seems fine right now, maybe a few number tweaks but not much.


I don't think the hero damage is the problem, it's the depushing a lane with a click every 100 seconds (50 seconds @ 20). Other than being at the enemy core with no warning and getting wrecked by the wave, if you don't dodge it as a hero you deserve to die.
With those changes you would completely destroy this hero.
12/16/2016 09:21 AMPosted by Cbcatanz
With those changes you would completely destroy this hero.


I doubt it, but I'm not saying you have to do all of them or all at once. 1 and 2 seem like no-brainers to me. 4 and 5 might be extreme (5 would be fun though).
12/16/2016 09:26 AMPosted by bauxite
12/16/2016 09:21 AMPosted by Cbcatanz
With those changes you would completely destroy this hero.


I doubt it, but I'm not saying you have to do all of them or all at once. 1 and 2 seem like no-brainers to me. 4 and 5 might be extreme (5 would be fun though).


I think the most likely nerf will be a decrease in Lava Waves dmg. That's really not even needed but people have a problem avoiding an easily dodged spell.
7) Leave him as he is and don't rush things.

Maybe when most of matches aren't Rag vs Rag we can see what's the real deal.
@ alastor - but having most matches rag vs rag would result in the win rate being dragged down by a 50% (1 win, 1 loss) majority. The fact that it is still >60% with most matches being rag vs rag would suggest that when he is only on 1 side of the match it is a very lop sided win rate.
12/16/2016 09:43 AMPosted by KimJongil
@ alastor - but having most matches rag vs rag would result in the win rate being dragged down by a 50% (1 win, 1 loss) majority. The fact that it is still >60% with most matches being rag vs rag would suggest that when he is only on 1 side of the match it is a very lop sided win rate.


Unless u filter for QM then the numbers you see on Hitslogs are for hero league only, so there is no Rag vs Rag.
Rag is OP, but those changes would just make abilities awkward and wouldn't address any of his problems.

1. Sulfuras Hungers Quest reward reduced from 120 to 90
2. Empower Sulfuras damage reduced by 10%
3. Blast Wave CD increased to 12 seconds
4. All Molten Core ability damage reduced by 15%
5. Molten Core CD increased to 120 seconds
6. Lava Wave CD increased to 120 seconds
7. Lava Wave hero damage reduced
8. Lava Wave grants reduced or no minion exp

I'd start with those and go from there.
Here's a nerf; dodge his lava wave. If you are at the Ragnaros' core, just spread out so he only can hit a few of you. I am amazed (and amused) how often an enemy team just stands blissfully in the middle of a lane while a huge horn blows and on the minimap certain death approaches, and they stand there... stand there some more... stand there.... and only when the thing appears on their screen you will see some action out of the soon-to-be bbq'd enemies. It's really not that hard.

As for his trait, it's not THAT powerful. And if you can't cope with it, back away for a short while or head to another lane. It has a massive cooldown.

The problem isn't so much Ragnaros, as players not knowing how to deal with him.
12/16/2016 09:54 AMPosted by Runoth
Rag is OP, but those changes would just make abilities awkward and wouldn't address any of his problems.

1. Sulfuras Hungers Quest reward reduced from 120 to 90
2. Empower Sulfuras damage reduced by 10%
3. Blast Wave CD increased to 12 seconds
4. All Molten Core ability damage reduced by 15%
5. Molten Core CD increased to 120 seconds
6. Lava Wave CD increased to 120 seconds
7. Lava Wave hero damage reduced
8. Lava Wave grants reduced or no minion exp

I'd start with those and go from there.


If you bring Lava Wave in line with Smash, he's not OP anymore, just overtuned @ ~55% winrate. So the focus should be on that I think, then worry about adjusting the talents. A reduction in Molten Core range and possibly damage I am down with, but I don't understand why he shouldn't be killable in that form. The no XP from Lava Wave is another way to go, but I'm not sure how easy that would be to code since all abilities that kill a minion grant XP. I guess you could reduce all minion health to 1 and that would be easier. Again, I don't think reducing the Lava Wave hero damage will move his win rate that much.
All of his Q talents are at 63-65% winrate. As are the Blast Wave talents. Lava Wave is the biggest offender here, but that doesn't mean Empower Sulfuras is balanced. His base waveclear is still ludicrously good, being able to wipe a wave with WQ in 2 seconds.

Reducing minion HP to 1 would probably be one way to weaken Lava Wave, or just remove the exp bonus, as that's the most snowbally part of it. We can make the wave smaller to reduce the teamfight threat, but that's kinda lame; I'd rather just reduce the Hero damage it does, as in some situations it's practically unavoidable, like pushing bot keep on BHB for instance. If you're committed to that keep, there is no practical way to avoid the wave.
His Q build is strong, and i love using it on rag. Is it overpowered? No, it's just over represented. It's not like he walks up to someone and just Q's and they die instantly. They take a lot of damage, yeah. The same could be said about Varian who can delete people, or Thrall who gets in your face. The only reason rag is doing so well right now is because people aren't playing around him, they're not dodging meteors, they're standing in lava wave because looking at the minimap is hard, they dont avoid his trait's abilities or focus him during it, they simply stay near him and just die to it. To me, he's more of a solo laner version of Gul'dan. He's very strong, but i've won against plenty of rags without one on my team, he's not unbeatable, and not OP.

As a fellow rag player, i suggest learning how to play heroes like Nazeebo, Jaina, or something along those lines. Something with high damage, good wave clear, great harass, and the ability to stick to him and prevent his escapes. Nazeebo also WRECKS his trait form so hard, just drop a wall on him, and watch his trait melt before your eyes.
I think that the main problem with Ragnaros is the huge amount of exp that lava wave grants him (2/3 minions waves depending on timing and game situation), so that as soon as his team reaches lvl10 can easily come back from a 1-2 level disadvantage (or increment accordingly its lvl advantage) without doing anything else than spamming lava waves on one line every 100 sec while pushing the other 2. It makes also mercenaries much less effective, because they will be damaged & forced to fight your minion wave alone.

For all his other abilities, he's strong but not excessively like other heroes in the past and can be countered in many ways.

Just reduce by half the exp granted by the wave and he'll be mostly fine.
So translation OP, instead of balancing him you want to gut him and put him into garbage tier
12/16/2016 12:02 PMPosted by WutsKraken
So translation OP, instead of balancing him you want to gut him and put him into garbage tier


Sigh, almost all my suggestions have to do with nerfing Lava Wave. You know what his other heroic is at for win rate? 54%. Take lava wave away completely and that's where he's at. The other 2 changes I suggested (lower his health somewhat, make him killable in trait form) are fairly minor. Hell, what I suggested might put him at exactly 50%, oh the humanity!

Another good change would be to trait range, someone suggested a 15% reduction either on reddit or in these forums. Sounds about right because right now his abilities reach beyond the halfway point of the lane in try mode and they should probably only reach halfway.
I'm still amused at Lava Wave complaints. Getting exp from lanes is not a new thing, Azmo can do it to an extent.

You can completely dodge Lava and it's completely useless in teamfights that don't occur in a lane.

There's even ways to counter it. I mean you can take Tyrael and toss Sanctification down for your team to get under while it goes over. You could use Zera VP defensively to save your own team from damage as well.

Learn to play against a hero for more than a week before you start screaming for nerfs. At least TRY.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum