DotA2 is making a new Talent System for its Heroes

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So DotA2 is planning to add a talent system to its Heroes just like the one in HotS , where every talent is unlocked with leveling up and progress.
And yet maintaining the shop they have in the game, I'm not sure if this is for balance purposes or to make the game more complex or simply is a new copy and past , like character they have.
https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/5hrccr/dota_2_giving_all_its_heroes_hots_like_talents_to/
I think it's being added to make DotA 2 look strictly more advanced from a marketing standpoint.
You have obviously not read the Dota 2 patch notes, let alone played Dota 2.
Dota 2 is simply replacing...

+2 stats
+2 stats
+2 stats
+2 stats
+2 stats

Dota 2 has items, and these arent your typical stat sticks from League, many items give you insane utility such as...

Bolt of the storm every 12 seconds
Arthas Anti-magic shield that lasts 5-10 seconds
Silence a target and makes them vulnerable for 5 seconds

So now you are mixing crasy items with interesting stat boosts = profit?
12/11/2016 08:13 PMPosted by Dreadnought
You have obviously not read the Dota 2 patch notes, let alone played Dota 2.
Dota 2 is simply replacing...

+2 stats
+2 stats
+2 stats
+2 stats
+2 stats


This. 10 levels of +2 stats was rather old and boring.
Dota2 will destroy HoTS.

How you may ask;

Dota2 will become like HoTS which you can use allies chat freely and without getting silenced.
yeah they needed something new after having the same +2 attributes system since wc3 days of dota
12/11/2016 11:52 PMPosted by DmgCtrl
Dota2 will become like HoTS which you can use allies chat freely and without getting silenced.

The irony is that when DotA 2 first rolled out their own automated community report-driven silence system, those of us playing at the time actually suffered through the sort of absolutely catastrophic literally-everyone-is-muted nightmare that you kids like to pretend is going on in HotS.
This is how you innovate the genre which is adding new competitive mechanics on top of older ones. From the looks of it, the talent system is needed to solve some balance problem on certain heroes without them being overpowered by straight buffs.

A clear example is the no mana cost reincarnation of Wraith King at level 25 to fix his giant weakness to mana burn as a carry. Straight buffing him to have no mana cost reincarnation would have made him broken because you can never counter him during early to mid game. The same is true with Warlock's golem that gives you a choice of making his golems magic immune against spell heavy team or more armor against physical teams at level 25 because those golems easily die late game. It also gives you meaningful choice because none of those choice is straight up better than the other and entirely dependent on enemy team comp.

Maybe Blizzard can learn a thing or two if Icefrog can balance this new feature for competitive.
Those are still just stats, only change is that they aren't distributed evenly like before, no interesting talents like HotS has...
The talent updates are a means to both address hero versatility, but also to add in more power and customization to the game without directly tying it to gold/resource management. Basically, they don't seem like much as a stand-alone, but the opportunity cost is pretty hefty (in my book, as an old, old, old dota hand here)

One of the big drawbacks to dota 2 is that many heroes were regulated to 1-trick wonders outside of pub-stomp fantasies where heroes that are generally expected to have one level of gold (to buy items to power up their later game) suddenly have much more than they would typically have. Your basic "support hero" (typically regulated to low-gold, specific items, limited xp) now has talent options that give them a few perks they might otherwise have needed to spend gold toward getting, gold that they wouldn't normally get, but now no longer need to expend on getting that sort of perk — so it not only improves their resource management potential, but then increases the appeal of (potentially) branching out a hero outside of their particular gimmick.
— which can be particularly appealing for many heroes that had sort of 'noob-trap' build potential that could end up throwing the game should a player actually try to pursue what otherwise seemed like a theoretically worthwhile approach to a hero (which would take more time & examples to really spell out in a non-dota environment so not going further on that)

this means that certain support heroes could have a better transition to later (or rather, super late) game, roamers/gankers are more likely to turn around into semi-carry or even dual carry, or a hero that might otherwise be kinda 'hard-countered' by an enemy draft or item purchase now has an option to try to offset the counter without as heavy a splurge into the fantasy-gold supply as previously deemed.

Basically, this is pretty much the sort of balance change dota 2 really needed to have some like 5-6 years ago (imo) when it became "DoTA 2" but has largely been put off cuz the game could get away with milking content all this time.

Now that Dota 2 is porting over the last vestige of Dota-Allstars (the unreleased hero, Sun Wukong), they need to have a strong show to inspire where genuinely "new" content is finally going to take the game.

The chance could cut down on in-game time (to appeal to players who don't like the time investment) but also appeal to old-hands (like myself) that grew bored with valve regilded something we've already done for years and [i] finally [/b] breaking some of the static gilded crap the game has been incrusted in in favor of balance shifts on stuff I remember theory crafting about way back on the old dota-allstars forums.

If I wasn't as cynical as I am now after I'll these years gone by, I'd actually be kinda giddy about this sort of update to dota.
Why the heck are you discussing DotA here?

fcuk DotA!
Just let them do whatever they like, cause right now the biggest playerbase is in Asia where every filipino and chinese player farms items worth 20-50 cents...
12/11/2016 11:52 PMPosted by DmgCtrl
Dota2 will destroy HoTS.

lol, no.
Hots is on a so low state already, that the other mobas don't even feel it's presence.
This is the HotS forum, the dota2 forum is over there
Talents for Dota are way different than for HotS.

-HotS: the give a lot of choice and change the gameplay of the hero drastically in some cases. They are essencial, and are bassically their build, since there are no items.

-Dota: it's a replacement for the old +2 stats buff that was boring and making desbalanced scaling between the heroes in there. Now, the talents only add raw power (for exception of the lvl25 ones and some lvl20) to substitue it. Also, it will improve a lot the heroes that was support cause they didn't scaled well in the game, since Dota you can have amazing carrys with basic atack damage, but none that can last a late game that is a spellcaster, since magic damage scale poorly in there. Now, we have a lot of build variety for some heroes, they scale well, and now, some Support can have more impact, roamers can become more powerfull in gank early/mid game without sacrificing power in their late, making them semi carry, and so on.

Peersonally, I think it's very nice to do thses changes, and will help a lot the game.
I think it's great that DotA is finally evolving instead of firmly marrying to the misguided idea that everything about the wc3 map was perfect and never needed changes.
12/12/2016 12:36 AMPosted by Azrael
12/11/2016 11:52 PMPosted by DmgCtrl
Dota2 will become like HoTS which you can use allies chat freely and without getting silenced.

The irony is that when DotA 2 first rolled out their own automated community report-driven silence system, those of us playing at the time actually suffered through the sort of absolutely catastrophic literally-everyone-is-muted nightmare that you kids like to pretend is going on in HotS.


No we didn't, because silence in DotA isn't automatic, so only the real !@#$%^-s got punished, and you only get 3 reports per week, severely limiting abuse.

Anyways, as for the topic. This, plus the other changes (see: http://www.dota2.com/700/gameplay/ ) is highly ironic. They also add healing wells and many more of the things we have in Heroes. It seems Volvo realizes which game is superior.
12/12/2016 05:31 AMPosted by Cenerae
I think it's great that DotA is finally evolving instead of firmly marrying to the misguided idea that everything about the wc3 map was perfect and never needed changes.

Tbh, it could always be that bigger changes like this take time since DotA has been balanced around certain ideas that even a slightest thing going wrong could break it.
Still glad they are being made since I could actually revisit that game now!
12/12/2016 04:04 AMPosted by Azure
Why the heck are you discussing DotA here?

fcuk DotA!
Just let them do whatever they like, cause right now the biggest playerbase is in Asia where every filipino and chinese player farms items worth 20-50 cents...


Cause dota is a superior game, you're just unskilled trash.
12/12/2016 08:29 AMPosted by Vaniity
12/12/2016 04:04 AMPosted by Azure
Why the heck are you discussing DotA here?

fcuk DotA!
Just let them do whatever they like, cause right now the biggest playerbase is in Asia where every filipino and chinese player farms items worth 20-50 cents...


Cause dota is a superior game, you're just unskilled trash.

I need to agree , yes dota did steal almost everything from Warcraft but Hots is a noob version of Dota in term of complexity. This doesn't mean Hots is dying the game is fine and probably at its best state and will keep on growing.
12/12/2016 08:39 AMPosted by DragonLord
I need to agree , yes dota did steal almost everything from Warcraft but Hots is a noob version of Dota in term of complexity. This doesn't mean Hots is dying the game is fine and probably at its best state and will keep on growing.
They didn't steal anything. The community created a genre without any input from Blizzard. Remember the painter analogy that people acknowledges the painter for the masterpiece and not the one who sold the canvass and the painting materials.

12/12/2016 05:31 AMPosted by Cenerae
I think it's great that DotA is finally evolving instead of firmly marrying to the misguided idea that everything about the wc3 map was perfect and never needed changes.
Nobody thinks WC3 Dota was perfect. The community is simply sensitive to Dota's balance because of high emphasis to the competitive scene which is why it never had this big change for a long time and now some people fear this change might throw off the balance after a patch that many considered to be the most balanced patch of Dota.

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