The current state of Varian

General Discussion
So since his release I would consider myself a Varian main (to the extent that you can main one character in this game) and I notice his HL WR has drifted down since they (imo) over-nerfed TBOF. Although it's still by far his most played build from what I can see. I know in balance terms he shares the same problem as other melee assassins: nerf a little bit and they become trash but if they're too strong then suddenly they're everywhere. But an effective 33% reduction to his self healing was overkill. I think they targeted the nerf in the right place but have got the numbers wrong.

Colossus Smash is in a decent spot as a niche pick and I think that's fine for a 3rd spec.

Since the nerfs to TBOF I have been playing mostly Taunt and I have to say I think it is underrated and very fun to play. My main issue with it is basically the level 4 talent tier. All logic points to Shield Wall being the go-to pick here but for my money an effective warrior needs to bring something more to the party than just pure tankiness. Look at every other effective tank in the game and this is the case. So imo Warbringer is a must-pick but that obviously leaves you with a problem against ability damage and poke. I'm now only really looking to play Taunt Varian against heavy AA damage teams. Maybe that's ok and is a decent niche? After all, there are plenty of characters with worse niches than that. But I think the stun on charge should be baseline and Warbringer reworked (CD reduction and increased range?) Could even nudge up the base CD of charge. I don't know but that talent tier does feel problematic.

Bit of a ramble and not sure what my point is but hey... discuss
Imo all that Varian needs is to have stun charge baseline, just change the talent to reduced CD. Also remove the 10% hit point penalty on Colossus, that ult has a 42% win rate, I don't think removing the debuff would break it.
Honestly his tree is a mess, 1, 4, 7, and 13 have no choices. 10 does, 16 does only if they have shields and ,20 depends on thier level 10.

Even in qm, it comes down to, do I need to merc hard, or bring burst. He should have never been released in current form.
Really think he has a issue with his lvl 4 talents. You have a defensive dmg immunity against increased mobility that also stuns on such a short cooldown.

Really I believe Shield Wall should be moved to lvl 7 talents the defensive tier talent choices (if needed replace LbtS).

In it's place add a different movement options to complete against Warbringer. Say a more support team favored option;

Safeguard - Charge can now target allies. When charging to an ally grant them 1 sec protected status. Charge range is increases by 33%.

Against Warbringer this provides great engagement range, the option to use charge as an escape with allies around & the ability to grant allies dmg immunity (if immunty is too strong grant dmg resistance). But what you give up is the stun & mobility (8 sec charge)

I would even maybe adjust Warbringer so how Safeguard is the Intercept Safeguard mechanics Warbringer becomes the Double Time Warbringer. So;

Warbringer - Charge cooldown reduced by 4 sec & now stuns the target for 0.5 second instead of slowing them. It also has a second charge.
Wtf he is still one of the strongest heroes in the game, he's twin blade build is so incredibly broken, that you can 2v1 but even 3v1 easily, you just need to l2p enough to know how to click on your enemy...
I think that E needs to be buffed and Warbringer nerfed, so that after taking Warbringer, you hsve ecactly what you have now, but he is better without it.

And the HP reduction on colossus really needs to go.
12/28/2016 02:27 PMPosted by bluevirus
Really think he has a issue with his lvl 4 talents. You have a defensive dmg immunity against increased mobility that also stuns on such a short cooldown.

Really I believe Shield Wall should be moved to lvl 7 talents the defensive tier talent choices (if needed replace LbtS).

In it's place add a different movement options to complete against Warbringer. Say a more support team favored option;

Safeguard - Charge can now target allies. When charging to an ally grant them 1 sec protected status. Charge range is increases by 33%.

Against Warbringer this provides great engagement range, the option to use charge as an escape with allies around & the ability to grant allies dmg immunity (if immunty is too strong grant dmg resistance). But what you give up is the stun & mobility (8 sec charge)

I would even maybe adjust Warbringer so how Safeguard is the Intercept Safeguard mechanics Warbringer becomes the Double Time Warbringer. So;

Warbringer - Charge cooldown reduced by 4 sec & now stuns the target for 0.5 second instead of slowing them. It also has a second charge.


I actually really like the safeguard idea here.
12/29/2016 06:48 AMPosted by Frosthaven
12/28/2016 02:27 PMPosted by bluevirus
Really think he has a issue with his lvl 4 talents. You have a defensive dmg immunity against increased mobility that also stuns on such a short cooldown.

Really I believe Shield Wall should be moved to lvl 7 talents the defensive tier talent choices (if needed replace LbtS).

In it's place add a different movement options to complete against Warbringer. Say a more support team favored option;

Safeguard - Charge can now target allies. When charging to an ally grant them 1 sec protected status. Charge range is increases by 33%.

Against Warbringer this provides great engagement range, the option to use charge as an escape with allies around & the ability to grant allies dmg immunity (if immunty is too strong grant dmg resistance). But what you give up is the stun & mobility (8 sec charge)

I would even maybe adjust Warbringer so how Safeguard is the Intercept Safeguard mechanics Warbringer becomes the Double Time Warbringer. So;

Warbringer - Charge cooldown reduced by 4 sec & now stuns the target for 0.5 second instead of slowing them. It also has a second charge.


I actually really like the safeguard idea here.


I like the safeguard, although I still think his class choice should be at level 1, and then ALL the talents are modified based on class choice. I.e. tank Varian might get the stun and cooldown reduction as baseline for his Charge, but a talent pick would give him Safeguard. DPS Varian builds might be able to talent the charge into a stun.
my biggest problem with varian is taunt's duration is way to damn short. at least be 2 seconds. I'm supposed to be the classic WoW tank, let them be forced to attack me longer
He's fine learn your builds. Tank and fury go warbringer and smash take parry talents. It's simple most early talent choices on heros are mandatory. So with varian there even more so bc he's 3 different heros in one, he has to take a certain route in talent choices to be effective. I'm lvl 16 varian tired of people mentioning his lvl 4 tier. So I repeat for everybody if you go tank build pick cc over parry he is tank enough and when going fury pick warbringer for the cc and cd reduction, so you can chase. Now smash build you don't need all of this pick parry talents he can stay in battles forever.
12/28/2016 11:06 AMPosted by TAB
Honestly his tree is a mess, 1, 4, 7, and 13 have no choices. 10 does, 16 does only if they have shields and ,20 depends on thier level 10.

Even in qm, it comes down to, do I need to merc hard, or bring burst. He should have never been released in current form.


Actually Varian is in a great spot since the TBoF nerf and Taunt buff, he is a great main tank with Taunt or amazing offtank / DPS with TB and one of the best burst heroes with colossus, provides team utility and has good talent diversity:

1: All choices are viable. Lions Maw brings all-round utility and reliable damage, Overpower gives amazing burst to the tank build with taunt (as taunt effectively guarantees the CD reset) and HKQ trades early / midgame power for insane lategame damage.

4: Again, both are viable. Yes it's still leaning more to Warbringer, which is the default, but shieldwall can situationally be good vs mage teams.

7: Victory Rush sucks, but the other 2 are viable.

10: As said, all are viable.

13: Resistant is obviously the default choice, but Ability power can be good with heroes like Guldan on your team and, thanks to the Heroic Strike change, even benefits yourself greatly. Movement speed can also be great for engage / disengage / chasing when the enemy lacks CC.

16: all are situational

Only the 20 choices are imbalanced, the ult upgrades all suck. But then, almost no hero has good choices at 20, that is a general problem rather than specific to Varian.
How can people not thing TBoF was over nerfed? 33% nerf to healing with the change to his trait. That is way over the top. It should have been only 10% or 15% at the most.
12/29/2016 09:29 AMPosted by Cbcatanz
How can people not thing TBoF was over nerfed? 33% nerf to healing with the change to his trait. That is way over the top. It should have been only 10% or 15% at the most.


Because TBoF is meant to be a DAMAGE choice, and it still is. The healing nerf was well deserved - on release TBoF made you tankier than the actual tank build.
Ability power helps healing too btw- the ways it can help Varian's self sustain and team's burst be useful. Sometimes I switch it up between those two Banners.
12/29/2016 07:29 AMPosted by BATTLETAG
I like the safeguard, although I still think his class choice should be at level 1, and then ALL the talents are modified based on class choice. I.e. tank Varian might get the stun and cooldown reduction as baseline for his Charge, but a talent pick would give him Safeguard. DPS Varian builds might be able to talent the charge into a stun.


Yeah that's the thing with him, isn't it? Level 10 isn't just a huge power spike, but in many cases he can't really do much until then. He's just sort of, well, there. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it tbh. On one hand it's normal to have heroes that are effective at different stages of the game. On the other hand leveling 1-9 in a high quality game just doesn't look all that fun.

/shrug
The multiclass switch talents should be put to level 1, so he would not have that high powergap.
Also he's selhealing needs to go down, as with he's mobility and ccing power too, currently he's extremely broken if it's user have more than 60iq...
NO NERFS ON THE DAMN STUN! That'll only make his winrate go much, much lower and it's so damn FUN.
12/29/2016 10:02 AMPosted by Tirigon
12/29/2016 09:29 AMPosted by Cbcatanz
How can people not thing TBoF was over nerfed? 33% nerf to healing with the change to his trait. That is way over the top. It should have been only 10% or 15% at the most.


Because TBoF is meant to be a DAMAGE choice, and it still is. The healing nerf was well deserved - on release TBoF made you tankier than the actual tank build.


I don't disagree with you that Varian needed some kind of nerf, but 33% decreased healing is way over the top. 10% or 15% would have been more than sufficient.
12/29/2016 11:16 AMPosted by SnarkyGoblin
The multiclass switch talents should be put to level 1, so he would not have that high powergap.
Also he's selhealing needs to go down, as with he's mobility and ccing power too, currently he's extremely broken if it's user have more than 60iq...


If he's so broken, why is his win rate so low?
*shrugs* noobs relying too much on strong picks and bans?

Every Sylvanas I see in game and in streams are god damn awful, does this mean the hero is bad?

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