Rework GG, WP talent

General Discussion
While I know it's not well received to rework something based on QM play, Blizz did it before with Valeera's burst damage. So I'm hoping they'll do it again with this talent.

For those unaware, this is a lvl 16 talent that increases D. Va's pilot mode damage by 75% and also instantly refreshes "Call Mech" if she participates in a takedown.

At the late game stages when it's available, QM play pretty much guarantees that D. Va will be able to participate in a takedown while she's out of her mech. To that end, this effectively renders her immortal in many matches barring an enemy team steamrolling, as she's able to quickly suit up again and again. I don't see much point in attaching a CD to it ("this effect can not occur more than once every x seconds"), as the long amount of time it can take to kill her bot should render that meaningless south of 60 seconds. Hell, imagine if Uther's Redemption was instantly reset every time there was a kill. And even he doesn't get that until 20. As it stands now, there's not a whole lot stopping her from running in aggressively, then backlining as a pilot until a hero is killed so she can call another one.

To me there's 2 routes to go. One is the rework. Move the talent to 20. Remove the instant refresh but keep the damage bonus. Put a high time CD on it. Take your pick. The other option would be to rework her pilot mode play. She's got pretty good range already and Big Shot provides plenty of cooldown on her call mech ability as it is. So shorten her range up, forcing her to play more dangerously in order to get credit for the takedown/use Big Shot to shorten the time.

I'm all in favor of just removing the instant refresh, but I'm open to other alternatives as well.
The problem is the fact that D.Va's mech is so bad in every other aspect having one really good talent that makes her "immortal" still isn't enough to make her mech any better than it already is.

And honestly, Suppresive Fire is usually better. At least for me. Lets you poke safer and lets you put a damper on those high mobility heroes that the game is seeing more and more of.
Personally I think if they change it to a simple reduce cooldown by whatever % it would be better. And have to agree on the mech, I remember when I first met her saw how slow she was and how bad the damage was and thought this is a joke right? Maybe a small buff is in order I dunno I hate her personally so.
Once she is out of the mech, just focus her down. She will die very fast with 2 focused individuals.

Similar to her Nuke. There is a small delay before she can get back into the mech. Make sure your team realizes this and focus her down and then promptly leave before the mech explodes.
05/16/2017 09:57 PMPosted by Zeus
While I know it's not well received to rework something based on QM play, Blizz did it before with Valeera's burst damage.


Now they just need to make it so she can't go stealth whilst in the middle of combat.

EDIT: Oooh, seem to have hit a nerve with the Valeera players.
In my opinion D.Va should ALWAYS have a downtime in pilot mode after she left her Mech. Does Rex has a talent to instantly call back Misha? No. That should be part of decision making: Can I afford to explode my Mech or let it die?

Currently in messy fights it feels just stupid to see a Mech explode and D.Va having another one right at hand. I would actually not even mind if calling a Mech would need 3-5s of interruptable channeling. So she would need to walk away from a fight first.
I do not see the problem unless she gets lucky and she gets the assist just as she ejects. It's a win more talent, with the caveat of the 75% damage thrown on there, but that is not the contested part of it. An enemy dying already implies your team is winning, but if they aren't an it was just a 3 for 1 trade, getting D.Va back in her meka is hardly that impactful, barring an already charged E.

If you can't capitalise on pilot mode before someone on your team dies, then your team either has no cc or wasted it already on mech mode. GG WP being taken excludes both defensive pilot talents, and the only way she is ejecting safely is if she didn't engage with boosters, or you took more than 10 seconds killing her(unless she hit nothing with boosters and has only 5 seconds to wait with the talent.) and she boosted out before dropping.

Also if she dives you, then just ignore her and run past her to the enemy team, she has no way of keeping up with you. Unless she ults but that makes her a jumping duck.
GG WP is a great talent but in hero league I rarely take it. I usually have to take pilot dash because most teams know by now to lock down DVa as soon as she is out of her mech. So, for me I usually get little use out GG WP unless The mech died as I was using boosters to escape.

Even if I have GG WP DVa's AA range isn't great so you have to put yourself in vulnerable positions to use it. if there is a greymane, Kerrigan, or Sonya on the other team it's practically suicide trying to AA against them with DVa.
05/27/2017 05:20 AMPosted by Yokihiro
In my opinion D.Va should ALWAYS have a downtime in pilot mode after she left her Mech. Does Rex has a talent to instantly call back Misha? No. That should be part of decision making: Can I afford to explode my Mech or let it die?

Currently in messy fights it feels just stupid to see a Mech explode and D.Va having another one right at hand. I would actually not even mind if calling a Mech would need 3-5s of interruptable channeling. So she would need to walk away from a fight first.


There is always a 4 seconds CD on call mech when self destructing. If you can't kill the pilot that has viking level HP and no mobility within 4 seconds that's really on you.
05/16/2017 11:03 PMPosted by Sunrider
The problem is the fact that D.Va's mech is so bad in every other aspect having one really good talent that makes her "immortal" still isn't enough to make her mech any better than it already is.


As I've already covered in my post:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/heroes/topic/20754856941

A hero being weak overall does not by any means excuse overpowered talents. Overpowered talents are overpowered talents and anything overpowered needs to be nerfed. I know this is a hard pill to swallow for the all D.va mains but it's true.

D.va is very weak currently and I think she needs a LOT of buffs, but at the same time her OP talents like "Hit the Nitreous" and "GG,WP" need to be nerfed.
05/27/2017 08:01 AMPosted by OrangeJuice
05/16/2017 11:03 PMPosted by Sunrider
The problem is the fact that D.Va's mech is so bad in every other aspect having one really good talent that makes her "immortal" still isn't enough to make her mech any better than it already is.


As I've already covered in my post:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/heroes/topic/20754856941

A hero being weak overall does not by any means excuse overpowered talents. Overpowered talents are overpowered talents and anything overpowered needs to be nerfed. I know this is a hard pill to swallow for the all D.va mains but it's true.

D.va is very weak currently and I think she needs a LOT of buffs, but at the same time her OP talents like "Hit the Nitreous" and "GG,WP" need to be nerfed.


If you were correct, and those talents were her crutches, we'd see the other talents have way worse winrates, since after all D.Va is weak without those tools, yet sure on a fairly small pool only, but still both Crash Course and Pro Moves both have greatly positive winrates and Torpedo Dash actually is reasonably well picked, and also has a positive win rate.
05/27/2017 08:01 AMPosted by OrangeJuice
A hero being weak overall does not by any means excuse overpowered talents. Overpowered talents are overpowered talents and anything overpowered needs to be nerfed.
I don't care much for D.Va myself and I think she's mostly fine, although some talents are clearly more popular than others, but I just had to come and point this out; either you don't know what being overpowered means or we have very different definitions for it. What does being 'overpowered' mean? To me it simply means that the hero, or talent, is way too strong for one or multiple reasons and thus easily wins most of the matches and needs to be toned down to get them in line with the other heroes.

How can a talent be overpowered if it doesn't make the hero herself overpowered? That makes no frigging sense whatsoever. It's as if people are using the word 'overpowered' as a buzzword these days.

You know what were really overpowered talents that made the heroes way too strong? Li-Ming's Ess of Johan and Kael'thas' Ignite for example. Now those were overpowered talents in the real sense of the word because not only where they the most popular talents of their tiers but also they gave so huge power spikes to the heroes that they became overpowered. And now those talents don't exist anymore. D.Va's GG, WP-talent is definitely strong and easily the most popular one, so they may nerf it because of that only because talent diversity, but it's nowhere near as strong as Ess of Johan and Ignite and doesn't make D.Va nearly as strong. So calling it 'overpowered' talent is pure bollocks. Calling the other talents crap would be more accurate, although they're not that much worse either.
Some talents could definitely be balanced and other's improved upon.

If Dva's mech form isn't perceived as being as good perhaps a slight auto attack armor addition.
The problem isn't GG WP itself. The problem is that the whole tier leaves you with 3 talents that helps you get the mech and one talent that helps you get the mech AND gives you an absurd amount of damage in pilot mode.

The talent that gives range should also give attack speed instead of a slow.
The armor should be an active, and give another bonus than a faster mech, GG WP already does that. Maybe give 15% free self destruct charges after calling a mech?
The talent that gives an escpae should definitely be replaced, you already have escape options lvl 20.
D.Va So.Op

Nerf dis
05/27/2017 08:01 AMPosted by OrangeJuice
05/16/2017 11:03 PMPosted by Sunrider
The problem is the fact that D.Va's mech is so bad in every other aspect having one really good talent that makes her "immortal" still isn't enough to make her mech any better than it already is.


As I've already covered in my post:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/heroes/topic/20754856941

A hero being weak overall does not by any means excuse overpowered talents. Overpowered talents are overpowered talents and anything overpowered needs to be nerfed. I know this is a hard pill to swallow for the all D.va mains but it's true.

D.va is very weak currently and I think she needs a LOT of buffs, but at the same time her OP talents like "Hit the Nitreous" and "GG,WP" need to be nerfed.


Since D.Va needs buffs, how is nerfing her few good talents won't make her weaker? There's a lot of ways to deal with her already; stop making her even more pathetic.
05/27/2017 10:26 AMPosted by Kenjin
attack speed instead of a slow

No, it shouldn't , you are picking that to slow things moving into/outo your team, you are not a Zul'Jin.
And people should stop getting you out of the mecha when they see you pick that talent without a plan to make you fall right after.
I don't think that she needs a buff to damage while in mech form unless they fix her practically invulnerability. She is always around. Always getting xp. Always boosting/knocking around people. Always using defense matrix, which can be hard for some people to move out of because its so welltimed. Her hero damage by the end of the game is more than respectable because of the crazy sustain.

She needs to be made easier to kill if a buff for damage is even considered.

No other hero can have 3 health bars...it's bad enough that you can get into mech 4 sec after blowing it up....to add further insult, all you need is a kill if the mech is destroyed, and she's going to be wrecking your team with her damage boost in the meantime.

People underestimate her. She's annoying and irritating like all overwatch heroes have been designed. To annoy and poke and sustain and then boost on out.

Note: this is all with QM in mind.

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