My assessment of Tyrande

General Discussion
Hello,

I played all the iterations of Tyrande but this iteration I am the most unhappy with. So lets begin.

Sentinel - Mana Cost Reduction, and additional pierce for every 8 Heroes hit. It's passive can't complain, however there is NOTHING to increase the width of it. A with increase should either be included in the baseline of the spell as you hit more Heroes or it should be a part of the First level talent.

Ranger's Mark level 1 Talent - 60 is WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! too high. I feel 30 would be WAY more appropriate to add an additional second onto Hunter's Mark. By the end of the game, spending as much up time hitting heroes as possible I don't think I've ever gotten it over 2 seconds.

We lost Lunar Momentum and the cooldown reduction from hitting Heroes with the Owl. This is a staggering lose for this character since all their abilities are on a 12 second cooldown or higher, as well as there being no way to reduce the cooldown on Hunter's Mark.

Shadow Stalk level 10 - You totally destroyed this ability by removing the heal from it, it's pointless now.

Empowered level 13 - Almost pointless to take because you removed the width increase from the Sentinel, and because you removed the width increase from Sentinel you really hurt our odds of getting long Sentinel snipes to utilize the level 1 talent Ranger.

Elunes Chosen level 16 - No, just no. Not with a 40 seconds cooldown and again no possible way to reduce cooldowns.

Level 20 Talents - Too little too late, by the time we get these much needed Talents the team usually already got Steam rolled and the game is finishing up.
i get your complaints, cuz several have been made by others on the forums as is (particularly width for owl) but it kinda feels like you're running down a bullet point list in a vacuum and not basing it on how the talents actually work on the character.

e.g ranger's mark doesn't just increase the ability duration (to which 1-2 seconds is probably the aim) it IS a means to reduce the cooldown of the ability when you attack.

similarly, the common suggestion is to toss width on 13 to better weigh it against Harsh Moonlight, rather than conclude it has to be baseline or a lvl 1 option, and otherwise regulate it, and some other stuff, to the 'useless' bin.

some of these things connect together to make some of the changes not so bad, and it seems like you're missing a decent chunk of those and are then convinced that stuff is otherwise useless, so you wouldn't be arsed to discover where with you err.
All her power comes too late in the game after too many skill shot quests from her abilities on top of everything else I mentioned, and like I said you usually end up getting steam rolled by the time all her power culminates at level 20 if you even reach that point before the game ends.

Picking her will actually hurt your team, because you would never chose her in a League game and in quick match all her counter parts the match making system pairs against her such as Tassadar or Abathur are FAR better options then her, further hurting your team as a result.

She really doesn't do anything at all well at his point, she's too squishy and her range is too short to stay in the battle and she has no natural escape mechanics. On top of all this her healing is only single target now and no longer heals her as well which she desperately needed because she takes a lot of damage trying to fill her role.

In conclusion she really does nothing well anymore, she's just a mess of a character that can't do anything right and doesn't fit any niche in a team.
I think all what Tyrande needs is changing shadowstalk, i really dislike that ult also revert empower to the original effect, on hit reduce all cds by 2 seconds, if that is too much they can try 1 second other than that Tyrande is mostly okish maybe some numbers pump here and there but thats it.
05/28/2017 10:31 AMPosted by Pneuma
and in quick match all her counter parts the match making system pairs against her such as Tassadar or Abathur are FAR better options then her, further hurting your team as a result.


I think Tyrande is bad now, but QM matchmaking rules still throw things in her favor. Though not a good healer, she is still a healer and she gets matched against shielders. So her team has a degree of sustain while the other team doesn't.
I honestly feel like she was buffed for utility stayed the same on damage, and nerfed when it came to raw healing numbers, but can single target heal m,ore.
To whom it may concern,

I wanted to get my thoughts out on the forums to discuss this topic regarding the recent Tyrande changes. I have been playing HOTS since the alpha and really enjoyed her playstyle when first introduced. Tyrande in my opinion is an all-rounder character with healing, damage, and utility. Now, I feel she is underperforming in all of these except her utility due to her abilities.

1) Healing - (Needs Buff Early Game)
Before coming onto the forums, I played a ranked game as her and was literally lambasted by my fellow teammates for doing 1/4th of the healing as our Kharazim. Tyrande will only due decent healing late game, only if the player picks the talent "Overflowing Light" which grants 30% more healing over 60% health.

My recommendations:
    Move Celestial Attunement to Tier 16; Move Overflowing Light to Tier 4
    Increase Cooldown of Light of Elune & buff base healing
    Increase healing if targets health is below %


2) Damage (Needs Sentinel Talent Tree Buff)
I believe the recent changes did improve her damage output but is still underperforming with the owl talents. Having hit 45+ heroes with owls does not feel rewarding enough to justify the talent picks. I would like to see more risk/reward added to this talent path.

My recommendations:
    Remove Iceblade Arrows at Tier 20 and add 2nd Sentinel charge
    Increase Empower cooldown reduction to 6 seconds per hero hit; Gain mana per hero hit
    Add reduction in spell armor to enemies hit by Empower/increased Sentinel damage with increased mana cost


In short, I'd like slight buffs added to this hero to make her more viable and enjoying to play again.
Maybe i'm off by miles but i think they should increase her AA range/dmg and speed in order for her Q cd reduction to have any point.That aoe heal with hunter's mark talent should be base and perhaps reduced a little so that it doesn;t go "hey that;s OP".
I think her range should be increased minimum.
I really like her kit. Yeah, she lost width on owl which was a really fun build but outside of that I think her kit was improved. Her level 1 E talent is really good without having to build talents for it. There's also a lot of potential for her Q talents with spell armor and stun cleanses. I wasn't think too fond of her Shadowstalk change but I must say I do enjoy the new version for trying to burn someone down in a fight.

All that being said I do think she needs number tweaks. Her damage seems to be more consistent and higher but her healing is just abysmal. I think a bit more healing on her Q, bring back a heal for Shadowstalk, or increasing attack speed to indirectly increase healing would do wonders.
05/28/2017 01:27 PMPosted by Tawney

All that being said I do think she needs number tweaks. Her damage seems to be more consistent and higher but her healing is just abysmal. I think a bit more healing on her Q, bring back a heal for Shadowstalk, or increasing attack speed to indirectly increase healing would do wonders.


Raw number tweaks ? No, she doesn't need raw increase in damage in any way. However she needs power sooner rather then later and not from skill shots that don't build up fast enough and culminate into too little too late if you even do reach level 20 without getting steam rolled/snow balled because you weren't able to contribute much for the team.
Upon further playing her she really only has 1 viable build, and it's not the Owl one at all. The only Owl talent I ever take is at level 13 Harsh Moonlight, and that's even a tossup between Quickening Blessing but never Empower because without the Width increase talent it's not worth taking any of the damage talents or investing too much into Sentinel because it's nearly impossible to hit anyone that isn't within viewing distance because it will nearly always miss because it's so narrow.

Also with Hunter's Mark long cooldown and no way to reduce it's cooldown it's not worth investing in anything that extends it. You cast it on 1 target and even if it lasts 10 seconds who cares because if that person dies within 3 secs you still can't cast it again for another 17 seconds so it's pointless investing too much into the talent.

So the only real viable build she has is her Lunar Flare build, but taking the lvl 20 talent is probably not as good of a choice as taking Iceblade Arrows especially since you probably took Darnassian Archery at lvl 7 and that Free lunar arrow that falls on the 10TH!!!!!!! time you hit Hero usually misses anyway because of how everyone is always moving around so it is not a consistent choice. To make that talent even somewhat usable it should be every 5th hit, or keep it the 10th hit but there is no delay and hits immediately.

So all in all, she only has 1 build and that build doesn't really focus on anything and is just a hodgepodge of really the only talents the are some what viable and not focusing on anything in particular except empowering all her abilities over all very slowly because any one aspect of her is too incredibly weak to focus on.
05/28/2017 12:21 PMPosted by RedJohn
Maybe i'm off by miles but i think they should increase her AA range/dmg and speed in order for her Q cd reduction to have any point.That aoe heal with hunter's mark talent should be base and perhaps reduced a little so that it doesn;t go "hey that;s OP".


Something as long this line isn't a bad idea, double her attack speed, cut her AA damage in half, and remove moonlite arrow and replace it with anything that will improve her in one of her many lacking areas discussed in this thread. Instead of increasing her attack speed you could replace moonlite arrow with an ability that has her shoot 2 arrows at the same time which each count as a separate attack in regards to building up her talent quests, reduce the damage from each arrow also from this new talent if you want. This way Darnassian Archery would be even more viable as well as Ranger's Mark and Shooting star because you're getting these abilities built up twice as fast.

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