Defense Matrix

General Discussion
How is this balanced ?
Its basically give everyone on your team hardenend shield as base ability?
06/06/2017 07:51 AMPosted by Swegus
How is this balanced ?
Its basically give everyone on your team hardenend shield as base ability?


Oh you poor guy....I hope you brought hardened shield to this forum.
Stun? Positioning? Silence?
06/06/2017 07:51 AMPosted by Swegus
How is this balanced ?
Its basically give everyone on your team hardenend shield as base ability?


Yeah, like there is no counter play, right? Like you can't position better or just run out of it......
It only reduces enemy damage so long as they're inside the area. So it does nothing to prevent ranged damage if D.Va can't reach them and sit on them. It ironically works the opposite of how it does in Overwatch, because it's mostly a melee negator here.
Well um...there's this really good ability that counters Defense Matrix. It's 100% reliable. And it's called...wait for it...MOVING!
06/06/2017 07:56 AMPosted by Sacrament
Stun? Positioning? Silence?


Definitely.

Since there is an unlimited amount of cc to throw out to counter all abilities so we don't have to consider how powerful they are if the user is Not cc'd.

And it's not like cc would ever get cleansed.

And cc definitely lasts long enough to cover a teamfight or killing a tank who has up to 4 health bars available.

And if they get cc'd once then they definitely won't just use the ability as soon as they're out of cc.

And it's not like there are choke points anywhere.

And with such a long cooldown it is definitely viable to disengage (which you can definitely do safely as long as the opposing team doesn't have a bunch of stuns, slows, roots, or silences or your team has cleanse everywhere) and then you just engage again and it's not like they'll already be able to use it again.

For sure, I can't even imagine why someone would think 4 seconds of physical and spell armor for the while team on a 10 second cooldown would problematic.
Medivh's shield is a Divine Shield on a 5s cooldown!

Butcher's charge is a judgement on a 8s cooldown!

Lava wave is like globally casting 100 flamestrikes!

Rain of destruction is like Malf had 0.1s cooldown on Moonfire and dealt double the damage!

Anything can sound OP with the right words.
06/06/2017 08:15 AMPosted by Kenjin
Medivh's shield is a Divine Shield on a 5s cooldown!

Butcher's charge is a judgement on a 8s cooldown!

Lava wave is like globally casting 100 flamestrikes!

Rain of destruction is like Malf had 0.1s cooldown on Moonfire and dealt double the damage!

Anything can sound OP with the right words.


Do you mean to say that because any ability can be made to sound op that its absolutely impossible for any abilities to actually be op, or do you have a point in there somewhere about the subject at hand?

Anything can be made to sound selfish or evil with the right words too. That doesn't mean some things aren't actually selfish or evil. :-)
06/06/2017 08:21 AMPosted by Orion
06/06/2017 08:15 AMPosted by Kenjin
Medivh's shield is a Divine Shield on a 5s cooldown!

Butcher's charge is a judgement on a 8s cooldown!

Lava wave is like globally casting 100 flamestrikes!

Rain of destruction is like Malf had 0.1s cooldown on Moonfire and dealt double the damage!

Anything can sound OP with the right words.


Do you mean to say that because any ability can be made to sound op that its absolutely impossible for any abilities to actually be op, or do you have a point in there somewhere about the subject at hand?

Anything can be made to sound selfish or evil with the right words too. That doesn't mean some things aren't actually selfish or evil. :-)


No, we are just saying that Defense Matrix is most definitely not OP.
The inability of people that cannot think of logical solutions to enemies has always made me lol. I can honestly only imagine what this forum will look like with Malthael hits with his Last Rites.
There are tons of abilities that are really strong if you keep standing in them.

There are situations where Defense Matrix is good. That's how the game is supposed to work. Thoroughly useless abilities waste everybody's time.

I mean, even Wisp isn't *thoroughly* useless, though that's the one that sprang to mind as I was typing the previous sentence.
06/06/2017 08:09 AMPosted by Orion
06/06/2017 07:56 AMPosted by Sacrament
Stun? Positioning? Silence?


Definitely.

Since there is an unlimited amount of cc to throw out to counter all abilities so we don't have to consider how powerful they are if the user is Not cc'd.

And it's not like cc would ever get cleansed.

And cc definitely lasts long enough to cover a teamfight or killing a tank who has up to 4 health bars available.

And if they get cc'd once then they definitely won't just use the ability as soon as they're out of cc.

And it's not like there are choke points anywhere.

And with such a long cooldown it is definitely viable to disengage (which you can definitely do safely as long as the opposing team doesn't have a bunch of stuns, slows, roots, or silences or your team has cleanse everywhere) and then you just engage again and it's not like they'll already be able to use it again.

For sure, I can't even imagine why someone would think 4 seconds of physical and spell armor for the while team on a 10 second cooldown would problematic.


Your problem is that you are barely a Bronze league player who struggles with learning core parts of the game. Over 85% of the hero roster has some sort of CC that completely shuts down defense matrix. The chances of you getting into a team WITHOUT that CC is such a slim possibility it might as well not be there. Now, getting your team mates to USE that CC might be another issue entirely. But don't pretend like the CC ain't there when it is. And if for whatever reason you get a team that has no CC, ranged attackers also completely !@#$s on defense matrix. 90% of the time you D.Va wont ever be close enough to mages to effectively DM them, which means that DM has been and always will be a melee counter-- assuming those melee have no clue how to use basic movement to strafe around the ability-- because again, it only works if the enemy is inside it.

As for the rest of your rather misinformed drivel, the CC we just discussed also takes care of the "four health bars" that D.Va doesn't actually have nor will ever have. Murky is easily the single biggest counter to D.Va in the game, but they always go for March of the Murlocs for some dumbass reason and completely ignore the three second stun on a short as %^-* cool down. Hunt and Judgement are also hard counters to D.Va, in addition to anyone who has a short stun or knockback.

The only thing I managed to get out of your stupidly ludicrous post is that you have no idea how to play the game and you probably shouldn't be playing a game like this in the first place.
A few things:
-When casting it, you have to pick a direction. Once selected that direction cannot be changed, meaning it is 'fairly' easy for someone to move out of the cone area (same way you can move our of Cassia's cone). Yes, D.Va can move around, but the direction cannot be altered.
- It's a channel ability, so while it's going off D.Va can't do any damage or use any other spells.
- It only affects those directly inside the box, so any ranged or people behind or on the side of her won't be affected.

There are definitely team comps and several other ways to play around this ability, and because there are counters it is not considered 'OverPowered' by anyone.
D.va, so far, is the worst translated Overwatch hero to hit the Nexus and its sad since I enjoy her so much in OW.

The fact that you cant move and face different directions with Defense matrix is one of the weirdest decisions esp since it already doesnt do what it does in OW. You can outright deny a Pharah doing her Ult with this ability but in the Nexus you become a broken robot that does some damage dampening in a small radius around you.
Walk out of the matrix. It's not that large.
It is super weird for sure.
It counters some abilities really harshly, like Zuljin's Tazdingo, and any channeled damage ability, and I don't like that. It is also really hard to use effectively against more mundane threats.

I would rather the D.Matrix granted allies inside 25% armor, than reduce the enemy damage by 75%. It would be easier to use, quite powerful and wouldn't counter abilities so hard.

It is a weird decision and I don't like it. But D.Va has a lot of strength in other areas, so IMO it ends up being balanced.
"How is this balanced ?"

The idea is that it's very easily countered.

Walk out of the area, stun or science D Va, or just kill her mech.

Dehaka has basically the same ability (yes, with talent points) and few people complain. Why would D Va be any different?

It's what gives her the ability to function as a tank - since tanking in this game usually requires three separate abilities: damage mitigation (or the ability to heal), an Escape, and a tactical offensive move that has the ability to either Stun, Science, or deal massive damage.
06/06/2017 08:55 AMPosted by Sunrider
06/06/2017 08:09 AMPosted by Orion
...

Definitely.

Since there is an unlimited amount of cc to throw out to counter all abilities so we don't have to consider how powerful they are if the user is Not cc'd.

And it's not like cc would ever get cleansed.

And cc definitely lasts long enough to cover a teamfight or killing a tank who has up to 4 health bars available.

And if they get cc'd once then they definitely won't just use the ability as soon as they're out of cc.

And it's not like there are choke points anywhere.

And with such a long cooldown it is definitely viable to disengage (which you can definitely do safely as long as the opposing team doesn't have a bunch of stuns, slows, roots, or silences or your team has cleanse everywhere) and then you just engage again and it's not like they'll already be able to use it again.

For sure, I can't even imagine why someone would think 4 seconds of physical and spell armor for the while team on a 10 second cooldown would problematic.


Your problem is that you are barely a Bronze league player who struggles with learning core parts of the game. Over 85% of the hero roster has some sort of CC that completely shuts down defense matrix. The chances of you getting into a team WITHOUT that CC is such a slim possibility it might as well not be there. Now, getting your team mates to USE that CC might be another issue entirely. But don't pretend like the CC ain't there when it is. And if for whatever reason you get a team that has no CC, ranged attackers also completely !@#$s on defense matrix. 90% of the time you D.Va wont ever be close enough to mages to effectively DM them, which means that DM has been and always will be a melee counter-- assuming those melee have no clue how to use basic movement to strafe around the ability-- because again, it only works if the enemy is inside it.

As for the rest of your rather misinformed drivel, the CC we just discussed also takes care of the "four health bars" that D.Va doesn't actually have nor will ever have. Murky is easily the single biggest counter to D.Va in the game, but they always go for March of the Murlocs for some dumbass reason and completely ignore the three second stun on a short as %^-* cool down. Hunt and Judgement are also hard counters to D.Va, in addition to anyone who has a short stun or knockback.

The only thing I managed to get out of your stupidly ludicrous post is that you have no idea how to play the game and you probably shouldn't be playing a game like this in the first place.


First, you don't know me. Don't presume that you do.

Second, the only thing personal insults prove is lack of intelligence on the part of the user. If the best you have is "you're stupid", your argument must be sorely lacking.

Third, I never said you would have no CC. If you look closely the specific assertion I made is that CC is the universal answer to EVERYTHING, which makes it hardly an answer at all. Is DVa "Hard countered" by a 3 second stun which hits her? Kinda, sure, but the list of heroes who are NOT "hard countered" by a 3 second stun is a *lot* longer than the list of heroes who are. Your "short as (expletive) cooldown" is still 50 seconds, so you still have to choose who you use it on.

Worse, DVa is actually *less* countered by it than most heroes, as she is no longer stunned once she exits her mech. So instead of securing a kill, and getting numbers advantage for up to a minute late game, you've managed to inconvenience her. Definitely an optimal use of the ability.

(By the way, *NO*, 85% of the heroes do not have a stun or silence which can reliably be used to counter an ability on a 10 second cooldown. Less than half of all heroes have a non-heroic stun or silence, for the record, and many of those that do are situational)

In terms of it "only working on melee", that ignores DVa's booster charge which lets her close with said ranged attackers rather easily, in the same way that the idea you can "just walk out if it" presumes you move faster than her, which is not necessarily true, especially if her teammates are working with her as well as you presume yours are working with you. It also assumes there is not a map boundary preventing you from doing so, and ignores the strategic advantage her team gains by zoning you out of the area and potentially splitting apart melee attackers so she can't strafe with them.

Look, I never said there was no counterplay. I never even said it was overpowered. I just mocked the idea that it was idiotic to even ask the question.

DVa has a positive win rate in all leagues and it gets better the higher you go. Its even better when in quick match and you can't choose to draft specific counterplay. So don't show your ignorance by pretending DVa sucks or that the only people who struggle against her are bronze league newbs. The reason for that positive win rate is easy to see:
- she has a big body and is very effective at zoning and body blocking with boosters
- she has her mech's health bar, then her own health bar, and then those again if she destroyed her mech with nerf this (usable nearly every other mech's life, more often if she's good, which means yes 4 health bars) making her *very* hard to kill
- if she's not being focused she is very effective at zoning and shutting down opposing players, primarily thanks to defensive matrix.

So she puts you in a "darned if you do, darned if you don't" position where all your choices (waste your stuns and focus her, maybe don't even kill her, while the rest of her team chews you apart, or focus on their melee heavy damage dealers / supports but lose that fight because of defensive matrix) are crappy ones. Again not saying she's overpowered. She's not even close to the level of the Butcher or Azmodan (who are both very fun to play please don't nerf). But to suggest that anyone who questions the power level of such a potent ability must be a moron for doing so just shows your own ignorance.
Try walking out of the defense matrix when attacking. That may help?

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